New to lead-free

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hdwhit

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I saw some very nice looking 35 grain .224 bullets at Midway the other day and ordered several boxes. It wasn't until after I had placed the order that I noticed they were lead-free. I have never loaded lead-free bullets before. Is there anything I need to watch out for versus loading conventional bullets?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
Nope. Start at bottom and work up while looking for pressure signs.

They tend to seat a bit deep because copper is not a dense as lead ,........ So a bit taller bullet is needed to reach the weight. Can and has caused pressure signs before max load is reached.

Also they do not swage down like lead core bullets and that can also cause high pressure before max load.

But start at the starting load and work up and you'll be fine.
 
Good advice by BigBore45 but if you're talking about 35 grain there is no warning.

It's too short to worry about seating too deep. Seating deep would put in completely inside the case.

Even in Hornet I cannot seat 35 grain too deep, it would disappear in the neck.

Just load with ordinary 35 grain load data and shoot the snot out of 'em.


You didn't say what cartridge you're loading. If loading 223 Rem my personal advice is IMR-3031.
Hard to meter because the kernels are huge but just about the best for light bullets.
Also, work best in 1/9 twist to 1/12 twist. Slower twist rates can certainly shoot (like 1/7 or 1/8)
but you might be happier with a 9 to 12 twist or certainly 14 (but hardly any rifle has 1/14 any more).

No problem that they are 'lead free'. Just load and shoot.
 
Lead free will be longer for the weight with more bearing surface, affecting pressure. How much? I have no idea.
 
In answer to the question from ants, they'll be going into a 5.7 mm Johnson (.22 Spitfire) which is a necked-down 30 Carbine case.

The only load data I am aware of was published by Pacific in the 1960's and disappeared (along with Pacific itself) when Hornady acquired them. (Barnes. Cartridges of the World, 3rd edition, reprints Pacific and has no starting charge.) I was planning to start with the load for a 40 grain jacketed bullet reduced by 10%.

Thanks for pointing out the difference in swaging. I had not thought about that. I guess I'll need for fire a few of these into gelatin so that I can recover the bullets for inspection.

When I got seduced by this little cartridge thirty-some years ago, I had no idea how much "trouble" it would be and how much it would take over my reloading life. It's great!

Thanks again.
 
what powder are you using? i can run it through quickload and give you a better idea with the 35 grain
 
BigBore45 said:
what powder are you using? i can run it through quickload and give you a better idea with the 35 grain
Click to expand...
Thank you for that kind offer. Yes, I would like to take you up on it. The best loads I have had in the past were 12 grains of Hercules 2400 below a 40 grain bullet. Pacific also published load data for 14 grains of IMR4227 under a 40 grain bullet and 14 grains of IMR4198 under a 50 grain bullet.

i once tried 14 grains of IMR4198 with a 45 grain bullet and all the visual indicators suggested it was insanely hot, but when I dropped back far enough to not get rings around the primer, it wouldn't cycle the action. That's what led me to trying 2400.

Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
 
The lead free bullets arrived from Midway.

As soon as I opened them, I slapped a micrometer on them and found them to be pretty consistent at 0.2244 inches in diameter. By comparison, the 45 grain Sierra bullets I use in my conventional 5.7 mm Johnson loads are 0.2241 inches and the 60 grain Hornady bullets I use in my .223 loads are 0.2238 inches in diameter.

I have never had a box of bullets be 4/10,000 inch larger than they should be before. Other than starting well below the maximum load (Pacific only published maximum, not starting loads) and watching for pressure signs, anything i should watch out for with bullets this large?
 
This is a Wildcat Cartridge. No Known load data has been developed in the past 50 years. All data in this post is made up on a computer program and intended as a ROUGH guide only!

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Now that the safety warning is out of the way...


5.7 MM Johnson (.22 Spitfire )

Bullet: 35 Grain flat base v-max style bullet

COAL: 1.690"

Powder: Alliant 2400 ( Alliant says the formula has not been changed from Herco )

Powder Charge----Min: 11.5 Grains---Max 12.9 Grains

Velocity 18" Barrel------2899FPS----------3180FPS

-----------------------------------------------------------------------


5.7 MM Johnson (.22 Spitfire )

Bullet: 35 Grain flat base v-max style bullet

COAL: 1.690"

Powder: IMR 4227

Powder Charge----Min: 14.4 Grains---Max 15.2( Compressed ) Grains

Velocity 18" Barrel:---- 2908 FPS--------3066FPS


i would work up from the min load and not go past the max i listed if you can get to it.... lots of variables i dont have from your brass and gun and everything but the start loads should be good to go. Do you have a Crony?

I can do lots of other powders too. if you have some in mind that you would like to try just message me. Off the top of my head it seems maybe AA#9 would work and a few others.....
 
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Thank you very much.

Double thanks for such a prompt reply.

Yes, I do have a chronograph. It's ancient. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles like smart phone connectivity, but it still shows velocity.

I'm glad to see that the Pacific data from half a century ago is in the range provided by the program. I think you are right that something in between Alliant 2400 and IMR 4227 may turn out to be the sweet spot. I had looked at burn rate charts and Accurate #9, Accurate 4100 and Lil' Gun all seemed to be candidates.

For right now, though, I will try some loads at the lower end of the 2400 range and see what kind of results I get. Since I need to collect the brass for inspection, I can't use the local ranges, so I will probably load up some test rounds at 0.2 grain increments and test them out when I go to my retirement property where I have a 225 meter range set up and I set the policies.

My father carried an M1 Carbine in World War II, Korea and Vietnam. My first center fire rifle was an M1 Carbine he bought for me. When I found out about the 5.7 mm Johnson, I became intrigued. When I found one in a gun store, I bought it along with a few loaded rounds and was instantly hooked. Since then, this little round has taken over my reloading life and I'm determined to get a process for preparing the cases and a load that doesn't abuse that brass established before I die.
 
No problem. I would give the 4227 a try too. It seemed to burn clean @ 98% propellant efficiency and I would guess impossible to over load that little case as the max load at 102% case fill was still 9k psi under max pressure. Would recommend a magnum primer for the 4227
 
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