New (to me) Iver Johnson Break Top

[Speedo66]

Been jonesing after a break top for a while, couldn’t find anything locally. Also, didn’t want to spend a fortune.

Took a chance on a Gunbroker auction, and I think I got lucky. Gun was as described, .38 S&W, 85-90% finish, tight lockup in single and double action, and a shiny bore with strong rifling. Grips are in good shape with sharp checkering, and no chips or cracks. Gun appears to have been little used, and shockingly, considering it’s age, none of the screw heads are buggered.

They didn’t mention what series it was, but with a little research I realized it was a 3rd model, which meant it was made for smokeless powder and safe with current commercial ammo.

Based on the grips with owl facing out rather than forward, double sided cylinder stops, 4 frame pins over the trigger guard, and a coil main spring rather than leaf, it was definitely a 3rd model.

Serial numbers are found under the top strap, under the removable trigger guard, and most importantly, on the left side of the grip frame. This latter # will sometimes include a prefix letter, which the other locations won’t, to determine age. They all match on this gun.

It just arrived today as a C&R in the mail, pretty happy with it, will take care of my break top hunger. Two boxes of ammo were procured a few days ago, can’t wait to try it out, although rear sights are practically non existent. It’s about 8” long by 4” in height, 3 1/4” barrel. When the gun is broken open, the ejector rises up with the empties, then snaps back down, allowing them to fall out.

The serial # is H230xx. If anybody has the Iver Johnson book by Mr. Goforth I’d appreciate if they would let me know the year of manufacture.

 

[e rex]

I like that.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

Iver Johnson introduced the transfer bar safety, a design credited to Oscar Mossberg (this was before he formed his own company.) The actual patent credits Andrew Fyrberg, however. Instead of a hammer rebound, the firing pin is frame-mounted and has its own spring to retract it when the hammer is forward and the transfer bar lowered. Ruger and several other firms currently use variations of the transfer bar safety, and it shows up in other types of firearms -- the H&R Handi-rifle springs to mind. IJ was first.

Iver Johnson Safety Revolvers: Glorious contradictions :: Guns.com

Ever go to your local gun shop and see a pair of owl eyes staring back at your from the grips? Well, it’s probably an Iver Johnson Safety Automatic, and if you have some spare change, it may be worth your time to ask to look at it.

www.guns.com

Along with similar revolvers by H&R and Hopkins & Allen, Iver Johnsons were popular in large part due to their low price, especially for homeowners, shopkeepers (and petty criminals.) They weren't typically the choice to equip entire law enforcement departments, but plenty served cash-strapped cops as private-purchase hideout/back-up guns. Not fancy or prestigious, but they worked well.

 

[Speedo66]

Iver Johnson introduced the transfer bar safety, a design credited to Oscar Mossberg (this was before he formed his own company.) The actual patent credits Andrew Fyrberg. Instead of a hammer rebound, the firing pin is frame-mounted and has its own spring to retract it when the hammer is forward and the transfer bar lowered. Ruger and several other firms currently use variations of the transfer bar safety, and it shows up in other types of firearms -- the H&R Handi-rifle springs to mind. IJ was first.

Iver Johnson Safety Revolvers: Glorious contradictions :: Guns.com

Ever go to your local gun shop and see a pair of owl eyes staring back at your from the grips? Well, it’s probably an Iver Johnson Safety Automatic, and if you have some spare change, it may be worth your time to ask to look at it.

www.guns.com

Along with similar revolvers by H&R and Hopkins & Allen, Iver Johnsons were popular in large part due to their low price, especially for homeowners, shopkeepers (and petty criminals.) They weren't typically the choice to equip entire law enforcement departments, but plenty served cash-strapped cops as private-purchase hideout/back-up guns.

A couple of Scandinavian immigrant gunsmith/inventors who did well.

Johnson from Norway, Mossberg from Sweden.

Johnson’s ad campaign for the sliding hammer block, a first allowing all cylinders to be safely loaded with no chance of firing if dropped, was called “hammer the hammer”. This showed that no matter how much pressure was placed on the hammer, it would not fire a cartridge unless the trigger was pulled.

 

[Speedo66]

I was looking online in the usual places for a holster for this gun, with no success. There were a few maybe’s, but zero left handed.

On a whim I checked my box-o-holsters and found an old S&W branded one made for a S&W model 36 Chief Special.

The Iver Johnson fit snugly inside, the top snap fit perfectly to hold it in place.

So now it’s possible to carry if I so choose.

 

[Johnm1]

Took a chance on a Gunbroker auction, and I think I got lucky. Gun was as described, .38 S&W, 85-90% finish, tight lockup in single and double action, and a shiny bore with strong rifling.

Very nice and fun to shoot. I have imagined finding a replacement latch and modifying it to include a rear sight that can be seen by a human. I've just never followed up on that thought.

The actual patent credits Andrew Fyrberg,

On a side note, I remember reading someplace that Iver Johnson invited other manufacturers to use the transfer bar that he patented without cost because he thought it was such an improvement. But my searches can't find that on the internet. Does anybody remember that? Or am I miss-remembering?

 

[Speedo66]

After cross checking different sources, I think I’ve accurately figured out its age.

It appears it was made in 1924, so it’s coming up on its 100th birthday.

If I make it, I hope to look so good on mine.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Very nice!

I have a blued 3rd Model in .32. It serves in place of the worn-out 2nd Model .32 that was my Grandparents and Dad's only handgun back on the Depression to early Cold War Kansas farmstead.

I believe the 3rd Models have a way longer production run, but way lower actual production numbers that the ubiquitous 2nd Models.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Johnson’s ad campaign for the sliding hammer block, a first allowing all cylinders to be safely loaded with no chance of firing if dropped, was called “hammer the hammer”. This showed that no matter how much pressure was placed on the hammer, it would not fire a cartridge unless the trigger was pulled.

Iver Johnson's did not have a hammer block. It is what we call today a transfer bar. Hammer blocks and transfer bars are complete opposites in the way they function.

Hammer blocks prevent the hammer from falling all the way, preventing the firing pin from striking a cartridge.

This is a hammer block in a modern Smith and Wesson revolver. Notice it is positioned between the hammer and the frame. Notice the raised surfaces on the rebound slide and the bottom of the hammer are keeping the hammer back slightly. If a heavy blow to the hammer should deform these, or break the stud the hammer rotates on, the hammer block will prevent the hammer from falling all the way to fire a cartridge under the hammer.

This is the lockwork of a modern Ruger Vaquero. The thin vertical piece attached to the trigger is the transfer bar.

The transfer bar in a Ruger is normally withdrawn so the hammer cannot contact the frame mounted firing pin. When the hammer is cocked, the transfer bar rises. When the trigger is pulled, the transfer bar remains up, so the hammer can strike the transfer bar and transfer the hammer blow to the firing pin, hence the name.

This is Iver Johnson's patent drawing for their transfer bar, although it was called a safety lever at the time.

 

[Johnm1]

This is Iver Johnson's patent drawing for their transfer bar, although it was called a safety lever at the time.

This may be just another case of urban legend. But I seem to remember reading a story that Iver Johnson did not enforce their patent and welcomed others to use it. Is there any truth to that? I can find no reference to that on the Internet today.

 

[Speedo66]

Very nice and fun to shoot. I have imagined finding a replacement latch and modifying it to include a rear sight that can be seen by a human. I've just never followed up on that thought.

Iver Johnson made a top break model in several calibers called the Trailsman 66, it came with a decent sized adjustable rear sight on the latch.

I wonder if they are interchangeable?

 

[Johnm1]

I wonder if they are interchangeable?

Never knew that. I’d bet they were interchangeable. The trick would be finding one. New search in my future.

I knew that S&W did something similar on their 44 DA. But other than @Driftwood Johnson showing a picture of one of his I’ve never seen one of those either. I may try buying a latch for mine and see if I can modify it to include a bigger rear sight.

 

[Speedo66]

Never knew that. I’d bet they were interchangeable. The trick would be finding one. New search in my future.

I knew that S&W did something similar on their 44 DA. But other than @Driftwood Johnson showing a picture of one of his I’ve never seen one of those either. I may try buying a latch for mine and see if I can modify it to include a bigger rear sight.

Numrich has the Trailsman 66 latch, rear sight blade, and adj. screw for a total of $29.

 

[Johnm1]

Numrich has the Trailsman 66 latch, rear sight blade, and adj. screw for a total of $29.

Thanks.