New to reloading and need advice on Shoulder dents on resizing

[EVR]

I have been reloading Shotgun shells for years, and have just now entered the rifle and pistol realm (RCBS Rock Chucker Supreme start up kit, redding trimmer, RCBS prep station). I have not found a recipe yet and plan to practice on some cases before loading them. of course I have a few questions...
(This is also the first time I have ever used a forum, for ANYTHING)...so if there is forum etiquette I miss I apologize)
I picked up some spent .223 from the range and decided to try to clean, lube, deprime, resize, and trim. I noticed that the first few cases had dented shoulders after resizing. I wiped off some of the lube on the next few and they came out better.

1)Are these first one safe to fire? (Cannot figure out how to upload images-help)
2)were they overlubricated and that is what caused this?
3)how short can I go on case trimming? (1.760 is std in book, I try to trim to 1.55 +- , I have some that are 1.48...is that too short?- will it depend on bullet seating?)

 

[Meta]

Too much lube will absolutely cause shoulder dents. A very thin film is all that's needed. Only enough where it feels slick but not sticky. I much prefer the spray on lanolin based lubes like Dillon makes for the simple reason that it's easier to get a consistent amount of lube on a large number of cases all in one batch. Put them in a plastic container, all laying flat, and spray them evenly. Agitate and spray again. Let dry 5 minutes and you're good to go.
As far as trim length, it's actually quite important. Trim to exactly what the book says is the trim-to length. Usually expressed in terms of minimum and maximum length, trim-to length is the minimum number. Cases longer than max can cause serious problems, while cases shorter, although less problematic, should still be discarded as good practice. They're only too short because you over-trimmed them.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes, shoulder dents are caused by excess sizing lube on the shoulder.
Oil is not compressable, so something has to get out of it's way.

Yes, they should be safe to fire. The dents will be gone after firing.

When you lube cases, put it on, then wipe off all you can with your fingers, and wipe it on your pants!
What remains on the case is "Just Right"!

Max case length is 1.760"
Trim Too length is 1.750".

Cases shorter then that are safe to use.
It has no effect on bullet seating or OAL of a loaded cartridge as that is determined from the case head to the bullet tip.
A short case just will not cover as much bullet shank, but the OAL measurement will be the same.

If you are trying to crimp, all the cases have to be the exact same length, unless you use a Lee FCD collet crimp die.

rc

 

[witchhunter]

Try not to get lube on the shoulder or neck, only on the body. Also, if they are military brass, the crimp must be removed from the primer pocket before you can reprime them. RC, why on the pants?

 

[Ifishsum]

I only lube the lower half of the body - you don't need anything near the shoulders or neck.

 

[rcmodel]

RC, why on the pants?

Because it was supposed to be funny.

Old experianced reloaders will understand your clothes get dirty!

And it gives the wife something else to bitch about on laundry day!

Never mind!

rc

 

[1911 guy]

Another agreement with lube on the shoulder. If I ever post something in the reloading foum that contradicts RCModel, stick a rag in my mouth. More humor. I hope.

 

[Magnum Shooter]

If I ever post something in the reloading foum that contradicts RCModel, stick a rag in my mouth.

YEA, he knows what he is talking about.

 

[Centurian22]

RC,
Can you weigh in on 'Ifishsum's method? I thought it was recommended to have the whole case lubed and a little inside the case neck too? I currently use a lanolin / alcohol mix most of the time but for when I lube by hand, is 'just the lower body' ok?
Thanks as always for the sharing of your experience and knowledge.

 

[soloban]

Try using Redding Imperial Sizing Wax. Since I switched to that I haven't had a since dented shoulder from lube. I just take and swipe my left hand index finger across the wax and rub against my thumb every three cases and run my fingers over every case. Trim to length and toss back into the tumbler for 30-45 min to get the lube off. Much better than that sticky RCBS crap with the lube pad.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Easy, simple...

EVR--Another vote here for Imperial Sizing Die Wax--A little goes a long, long way, works great, no crushed case shoulders. Imperial also puts out a graphite lube for the inside of the case neck if you want something that doesn't need any cleaning there (Most powders are coated with graphite, so a little more graphite doesn't constitute an impurity.)

Imperial is easy to wipe off the case with a rag after resizing and before priming. You don't want the case with lube on it when it goes into the chamber of your rifle--case needs to grip the sides of the chamber when the cartridge fires; case lube makes this less likely, which leads to case sliding backwards within the chamber and putting greater pressure on the bolt face.

Also, with Imperial, since you use so little, you don't have to wipe hands on pants.

I used to use RCBS lube, with the lube pad; worked fine; Imperial is just less putzing to accomplish the same thing.

Centurian 22--You do need a bit of lube on the upper body of the case, too. But never the neck or case shoulder.

 

[rcmodel]

I lube the whole case, including the neck and shoulder.

You are rearranging all the brass when you resize it arent you?
That includes reducing the neck diameter and pushing the shoulder back.

Just don't use so much lube!

Like I said, put it on with a lube pad, or spray, or however you do it.

Then wipe off all you can wipe off with your fingers and it will be just right.

rc

 

[Captaingyro]

I also use Imperial Sizing Wax after having tried numerous other brands, and can attest that it is, hands down, the best.

One thing I've found is that it isn't necessary to spread lube uniformly over every case. After you've used your sizing die for a while, the inside walls are nicely coated with a very thin film of lube. As long as you keep using just a little lube on each case, even if it isnt' evenly distrubuted, you'll maintain that thin film inside the die and never have a problem.

 

[icanthitabarn]

I was wondering if anyone uses my method of plain ole isopropyl alcohol on a pad? I am very liberal with it and never had a stuck case. I started with shoe lanolin and alcohol and was always adding the alcohol, to the bottle. I now use a few drops of RCBS lube, too. I should look for dents but haven't.

 

[Trent]

I don't use lube on the inside of the case mouth. I found that even if you try to remove it, it causes powder to stick. Who knows what effect it'll have on the powder inside, longer term.

Instead, use something like powdered mica on the inside:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/290522/frankford-arsenal-fine-powdered-mica-4-oz

And a tray with brushes:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/197010/frankford-arsenal-case-neck-lubricator?cm_vc=sugv1290522

You "tap" the mouth of the case in the mica tray, size, then use the brush of the appropriate caliber to "clean it out" prior to seating.

Note; I *rarely* need to use this stuff for normal loading; I keep it handy for when I neck turn 30 cal, it really smooths the neck tuning process out.

 

[Trent]

Also, I use a rolling pad with RCBS sizing lube.

A LITTLE goes a LONG LONG WAY. I get several thousand reloads out of one little bottle of this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479231/rcbs-case-lube-2-2-oz-liquid

 

[beatledog7]

I use a rolling pad and currently Lyman case lube. I've never seen anyone else on here mention using it, but it does a really good job. A little goes a very long way. The more cases I resize, the less I need to lube them, as apparently the inside walls of the die retain some lube. So I take the dies apart and clean them after sizing a hundred rounds or so. The most I ever do of any bottleneck case other than .223 is maybe 50 per session.

Inside the necks I brush a very small amount of mica powder about every fifth one. Again, a little goes a long way, as it seems to stay on the expander ball for several cases.

I've never stuck a case, and I've never hydro-dented a shoulder. I'm sure someday I will, but it'll be due to my failure to follow what I know to be the correct procedure.