New to Reloading...don't sigh...the newbie 45 long colt thread

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Leaky Waders

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Hi!

I'm very excited. My wife gave me my birthday present a little early...a brand new .45 colt stainless vaquero. It's awesome. Although I don't get into cowboy action shooting, I do like the idea of modest rounds for plinking. Sure I've got .22's and other more likely plinking toys...but this whole vaquero idea has me really excited to experiment and reload.

So far I've searched the threads and figured I'd get the rcbs single stage rockchucker supreme kit from midway.

Next I'll need dies...does any brand work or am I best w/ sticking w/ rcbs? Are all dies carbide?

I've seen w/ various single shot rifles (e.g thompson contender) that a .410 shell can be shot out of the .45 colt chamber. Could one reduce the length of the .410 shell, so that the unfolded crimp would accomodate a revolver barrel and shoot it out of a .45 colt chambered revolver too? Just curious.

As for powder...how many rounds on the average can you get from one pound of powder? Does anyone recommend a specific newbie powder?

Do I need a chronograph or is just a good thing to have? Mind you, I don't plan on any hunting loads - I'd rather purchase these until I feel more comfortable reloading.

And lastly, are there any standard ball bullets available for the .45 long colt? My 11 year old son will be helping me and I don't want him to handle a lot of lead.

v/r,

LW

PS I've read that the '45 Long Colt' is a misnomer. But after searching the net and placing .45 colt just to recieve countless acp hits I've succombed to calling it the .45 long colt.
 
The Ruger Vaquero can handle stout loads, should you ever want to try those.

H110/W296 are the powder of choice for hot 45Colt loads. I remember 20-ish grains of these. 7000 grains to a pound.

You should be able to use standard 45ACP bullets, though they would be on the lighter side, and not the 255gr and above that 45Colt usually comes in.

RCBS makes good dies. So does Lee. I like Lee's factory crimp dies.

Read about the chamber throats on the Rugers, there is an outfit that opens up the chamber throats on Rugers, if you send them your cylinder. I think he charges $20 or so. Gives lower pressure and better accuracy, so I'm told.
 
I like pistols that kick really hard, but I just set up my brother for handloading 45 Colt and he likes his loads really lite.

What we found was his fixed sights pistol shoots 300 gr bullets into the bullseye, while lighter bullets go low.

A Lee #2 shell holder and a Lee 45 Colt die set is the cheapest way to go.

6 gr of Unique was 13,000 psi and shot very accurately without allot of recoil.

If I had that gun, I would go for the H110 - W296 - LIL'GUN powder types and get some recoil, but that is not what he wanted.
 
If you are not interested in magnumizing your .45 Ruger, Unique is a good powder to work with. Factory equivalent load is 8.0 grains of Unique (875 to the pound) with a 250 grain bullet.

You can get jacketed and plated bullets for .45 LC. Real revolver bullets with crimp grooves are best, although you can taper crimp .45 LC like an auto round if you feel you must. I would look at the Precision coated bullets. They are cast bullets available in standard revolver styles and weights, but they are completely "polymer" coated with little risk of lead exposure.
http://www.precisionbullets.com/

BUT, you do not need an 11 year old helping out until you are pretty well experienced and very comfortable and confident in your work. I don't like anybody in the room with me while I am reloading, except for special cases like demonstrating the equipment and procedures to a student. I have sat by and helped a friend for some specific needs of his, but keep the chatter to a minimum.

Sorry to hold back the cause of parental bonding and all that rot, but this IS rocket science and you have to be careful.
 
I think the RCBS Rockchucker is a fine press. Good Choice. I have a number or presses including two Dillon 550Bs, but the Rockchucker still gets a lot of use. I consider it an essential piece of equipment no matter what else you own.

I personally don't like RCBS dies. I find them hard to adjust. I have tried most of the die brands out there and I personally like Hornady pistol dies the best. YMMV.

The vast majority of .45 Colt handloads from my bench are loaded with 255 grain cast lead bullets and either Unique or 2400 powder. I have recently purchased a keg of Lil Gun and am anxious to see what they will do. As was mentioned, find the load you want, 7000 grains of powder to a pound, do a little math and you can figure how many rounds per pound.

I don't know the answer to the shotshell question. I doubt it would work simply because I have never heard of anyone doing it. When you get basic handloading down pat, you can experiement with loading shotshells in standard brass, but the performance isn't very impressive.

Chronographs are nice to have, but certainly not required. I personally own a refurbished Chrony that I purchased from the factory for $49.00. It does what I want. I have wished for more features, but this cheap little chrono does a good job for very little money.
 
Oh, yes, the shotshells.
If you can get a Handloader's Digest 11th edition, there is an article about handgun shotshells. The author describes cutting .410 shotgun shells off to cylinder length of a .45 Colt. There was no crimp, it would take up too much payload space. He cemented an over-shot wad flush in the mouth of the plastic case over the shot, which was in a shortened .410 wad. It only held 185 grains of shot, a pretty close range snake load.

You are new to reloading?
That is kind of a specialized gimmick, suggest you get some experience with handbook bullet loads.
 
IMHO I think you should start with some nice plinking loads. The .45 Colt (its not LONG) has such a variety of loads that work well, you can learn a lot from plinking. After that you can start pushing heavy bullets.

Unless your Vaquero has the Bisley grip, I'd say that the recoil will make you stop before you ever get to the point of damaging the gun. With a Bisley grip you can go farther. Don't worry about that now.
 
No, but I believe that that one singular box was either: Typeset by a person who thought "Short" was part of the name, or a marketing fluke, and REMEMBER it was never released into production.


If a man speaks when there are no women present, is he still wrong?
 
One thing I have never understood about this whole argument is why so many people WANT to say "Long Colt" so bad. They really want to. They will grasp at any straw to prove they are right, even if they can't prove they are right they are happy if they can't be proven wrong. They will go to any length to get the thrill of saying "long colt" and I don't get it. Why ?
I own a number of .22s. I buy .22 ammo. I hear and read about people with .22s all the time. I never see t his undying irresitable urge to call it a .22 LONG rifle even though it would be correct and no one would argue about it. Yet with the .45 Colt, they seem to be out of control like a junkie and delight in saying that word, Long.
I guess I am missing something.
 
Thanks for the suggestions thus far.

I'll go look for some hornady dies at my next visit to my firearms dealer.

I did shoot a box of twenty - 255 grain lead round nose winchester target range x45cp2 yesterday. It was fun.

The vaquero didn't noticeably kick any...although I shot groups standing free hand at 25 yards a little low to the left. I plan on buying a good quantity of various sized manufactured rounds for shooting and brass accumulation prior to sitting at the bench.

My gun is a plow handle by the way...I have a set of slimmer grips on the way too - maybe if I shoot a little better I'll eliminate my trigger pulling. Maybe the grips will help. Practice will certainly help.

On cabela's I saw some rounds for sale that stated they could only be used in rugers among other guns and were loaded to max sami specifications...they claimed that their bullets (I don't know if it was the .45 colt) could hunt cape buffalo. I'm tempted to try a box.

As for the .410 shell...its just seems like a neat novelty - doubt I'll ever do it.

I noticed on some of the commercial reloaders pages that they didn't want cci primed brass as trade in. Why is that? Do I have to worry about the primers in commercial brass if I want to reload?

v/r,

LW

PS - I read this article on the net by chuck hawks about .45 colts. It was very informative. I stick to using ".45 long colt" when searching the net because it eliminates all the acp stuff that also comes up when ".45 colt" is used.

As for the .22...we actually use "long rifle" and "shorts" in our range vocabulary...my son uses .22 shorts in his revolver...so when he's around we use the two different nomenclatures for him to really know which round we want. Before he started shooting I just always said "22".
 
A couple other places to read about .45 Colt is at www.sixgunner.com and http://shootersforum.com/

Sixgunner.com used to have an archieves of articles by Paco Kelly with some outstanding articles on .45 Colt. The site has been changed now and I can't seem to find that part of it, if it still exists. I bought a CD from Paco Kelly of his articles and also printed out a lot of them before the site changed. The .45 Colt is a very versitile platform. I primarily use mine with fairly light loads and cast lead bullets, but with heavier bullets it actually out performs the .44 Mag with less pressure to boot. It is also a great cartridge if you ever getting into bullet casting. A nice thing about the .45 Colt is that you usually arn't pushing the bullets to high velocity, so barrel leading is minimal. Yet, because you are shooting a fairly heavy bullet, you still get more than adequate performance on target. I have found my .45 Colts to be very accurate for out of the box guns.

"it eliminates all the acp stuff that also comes up when ".45 colt" is used."
Note that ACP is not .45 Colt, is is AUTOMATIC Colt Pistol which designates it as a different caliber.
 
Leaky,

My favorite cartridge to reload is now the .45 colt. Mine is a 5.5" stainless bisley.

I really like Win. 231 for my mild loads. I think it burns cleaner than Unique. They must have very similar burn rates however, because charge weights tend to be within a few tenths of a grain for either powder.

The winchester load manual is available for download from thier web site.

I've found 255 grain semi- wad cutters to be both accurate (under 1.5" at 50") and low in recoil. In all, a perfect plinking caliber.

I can second the recommendation of Hornady dies. However, in .45 colt I use the lee dies. They were about $15 less and came with the shell holder.

Have fun,

--usp_fan
 
Leaky,

Hope you enjoy your Ruger. Handloading is great, not as much as shooting, but close.
The RCBS kit and a some carbide dies/shellholder will get you started, but you really want to read some manuals first.

Tips:

Weigh every load until you get confident with your powder measure.

Pick a load that fills up half the case. This makes it easy to see a double charge. Hard to do with light 45 Colt loads, but sound advice.

Check serveral sources for their maximum loads. Manuals do vary, and the MAX varies with bullet design even though they are the same weight.

If you find a bad case, or bullet, or suspect your powder may be contaminated, dispose of it right then. Nothing like being too safe, and there is too much at stake.

Make sure every case has powder before seating a bullet. Sounds like a no-brainer, but it's easy to miss, esp. on a progressive press.

If you have a doubt, take them all apart.

Don't reload when you are tired, in a hurry, or otherwise distracted.

Keep your hands washed before, after and during. Nothing that goes into ammo is esp. good to digest, and oils from your hands can ruin primers.

Keep you work area as neat as possible.

One step at a time.

Have fun!

David

PS I have some new 45 Colt brass and bullets I don't need, be happy to send them to you.
 
The .45 S&W should not be confused with the mythical .45 Short Colt, the .45 Medium Colt, the .45 almost-long-but-not-quite Colt, OR the .45 Colt.
 
David,

Thanks for your offer on brass and bullets...I might take you up on that when I get my press. Should I send you an email to discuss the brass and bullets and shipping prices etc?

I just recieved (yesterday) 250 cowboy action loaded rounds in new starline brass from ammodirect.com - wow that order came in quick! I plan on shooting them this weekend. I really wanted to change my grips and replace the trigger and hammer w/ a powercustom kit that is coming - but they are not here yet. So, I'll just shoot some w/ the factory setup to get used to the feel.

I figured I'd shoot their rounds and keep the brass for my reloading. How much brass do you think I need?

I appreciate the reloading advice...I'm going to print this thread once dies down. Lot's of useful info for a newbie like me.

v/r,
LW

PS I'm not really sure what is the easiest crimp to use. I'm going to look at the rcbs step by step guide to see if it explains it on the net. The factory winchesters i had, have a crimp near the middle of the brass, the ammodirect stuff is crimped on the very end around the bullet. Is one preferential over the other for my circumstances?
 
You are gonna love that Power Custom hammer and trigger.

I wouldn't be without less than 1000 pieces of brass. That would be a minimum for me. I want to be able to load up a few hundred plinking loads. I want to have brass for experimentation, I want to have some heavier loads just because........................ I have a friend that has an obsession with using everything he buys immediately. If he has 500 brass, he has to load all 500 ASAP. Then a week later he wants to try a new bullet, a new powder, a new load........ and he dosn't have any brass to load. So then he goes out and shoots just to get brass. I have actually seen him just firing ammo almost in the air just to free up the brass. Butl, next chance he gets, he does the same thing again. Never learns.

.45 Colt is crimped with a roll crimp, like all revovler cartridges. In your heavier loads you will want a fairly significant crimp; especially when you are using slow burning powders like H110. Pretty much all loading die sets will come with the correct bullet seating/crimp die for the caliber.
 
Thanks 444 and others...

Just logged out of midway...the press and a set of lee dies are on their way! Should be here like July 3rd.

Good point on keeping some empty brass around. I could see your friend shooting for brass...LOL...sounds like something I'd end up doing.

I'll probably buy some more rounds from ammo direct to get my brass count up. It's only 11.75 per box of 50 in new starline brass...midway sold the brass only for near that yet for 100 hulls. So I figure I get to practice shooting and then get some brass to boot.

I was on sassnet.com today at work and it seems some guy wants to load 160 grain and 180 grain bullets in .45 colt. I saw some at midway. I heard/read/dreamed that heavier bullets worked best in .45 colt. Is that true?

I was planning on using like a 200-300 grain bullet..prolly 250 or 255. I saw that they varied in diameter by a couple of thousandths...which one do you use? Is it trial and error?

V/R,
LW

PS Going to the winchester site to check their load manual.
 
I mentioned that I like Hornady pistol dies, but Lee makes a good die IMO. Easy to adjust. I may have not looked into this a throughly as others, but to me, the actual function of the die is a given. They are all going to size, deprime, flare, seat and crimp. So, what makes the difference for me is basically, how easy are they to use; how easy are they to adjust. Do you need tools or can you adjust with your fingers. Do the adjustments stay or do they loosen ?

Another thing about having an adequate supply of brass. I don't want to be loading all the time. I also don't want to have to make time to load everytime I want to shoot. I want to sit down when I get the chance and load several hundred rounds minimum. In many calibers I might load 1000 or 1500 rounds at a time. Then, when I want to shoot, I have the ammo on hand, loaded and ready to go. If you only have 100 brass or whatever, you can't do that. You will go out and shoot it and you have no more.

I personally don't shoot bullets that light in .45 Colt. I guess if you only owned the one gun, then you want it to be as versitile as possible. You can try to get some serious velocity out of it. But, I have other guns. If I want some really fast, relatively light bullets, I go to the .44 Mag. The .45 Colt really shines with heavy bullets. If I ever hunt with my blackhawk, I will be using 300 grain bullets. However, as I mentioned, 90% of my shooting is with 255 grain cast bullets and moderate powder charges. They are accurate, cheap, and do everything I need for what I do most. I shoot a lot of cast bullets, and they are my personal faviorite bullet in all revolvers that I own. In .45 Colt I use .452 bullets. If you are shooting a lot of cast bullets, you need to slug your barrel and cylinder to see where you actually are. Up until recently I bought all my cast bullets. Recently I have become very interested in casting my own. I haven't cast bullets for the .45 Colt yet, but I will.
 
May I suggest putting your cases into the loading block upside down after you prime them? Forgetting a primer is very embarassing. After you have powder in all your cases, pick up the block and inspect them under a good light. Missing or double charges are easier to spot if you tip the block back and forth a bit.

Have fun
Jack
 
Thanks for the advice Jack...very good idea.

Well...today it came the RCBS Master reloader kit. It was like christmas time - I opened it up and assembled everything - the dies came too.

It came w/ a speer reloader manual - I've been reading through the chapters and will read again and highlite the stuff I should pay attention to tommorrow.

I still lack bullets primer and powder. Right now, 255 caste bullets look like a way to go. 444, do you caste your own or purchase them?

I'm confused on the issue of lubricant. The lee carbide dies say that they don't require any. If I load caste lead bullets, do they need to be lubricated?

Thanks for any insight you may have.

v/r,

LW

PS the power custom kit is nice. I spoke about it in a revolver thread.
 
The cases don't need lube if you're using carbide dies, but a whiff of Hornady One-Shot makes them go easier. You don't need complete coverage like you do with bottle necked or tapered high power rifle cases. Your cast lead bullets should be lubed by their manufacturer. I cast my own, but I have more time than money right now. The Speer manual is a good one. I don't have a .45 Long Colt, so I'll pass on loads.

Bye
Jack
 
"I'm confused on the issue of lubricant. The lee carbide dies say that they don't require any. If I load caste lead bullets, do they need to be lubricated?"

LW, there are two different lubricants involved here.

CASE lube goes on the brass to ease its way through the sizing die. Carbide dies don't require it. I use a very little on new brass, but used brass has enough carbon and bullet lube (see below) residue to serve as lubricant that it does not take much effort. A steel die, as used for a bottleneck rifle caliber, REQUIRES case lube.

BULLET lube goes on the (lead) bullet, either in a groove or as an overall coating to prevent lead fouling of the barrel. Commercial cast bullets come lubed and require nothing but loading into the charged cases.

Casting bullets is a major operation. It will require about as much more equipment as you now have to load the ammo, and is very time consuming if you want good bullets. I only cast for my old rifles. Match grade 337 grain bullets for my .38-55 are scarce and expensive.
 
I do both; I cast bullets and I buy commercially cast bullets. The vast majority are commercially cast mainly because I don't have a good place to do the casting (I don't have a garage). I cast at a buddies' garage and finding a time when we are both off and don't have anything else to do isn't easy. I find bullet casting to be fun. I suppose it can be done cheaper than buying bullets, but I mainly do it for fun.
I started loading cast bullets many years ago because they were far cheaper than buying jacketed bullets. Now, I continue to use them because they do everything I need the bullet to do. If I am going to be shooting real hot loads I usually load jacketed bullets, but the lion's share of my shooting is done with cast bullets.
I wouldn't say that bullet casting takes all that much equipment. Like anything else it depends on how far you want to take it. There are certainly easy and efficent ways to cast bullets and there are also inexpensive ways to cast bullets. It can be as simple as some kind of pot heated with a camp stove, a ladle, and a single mould. I have fired lots of my own cast bullets without sizing them. But to put the icing on the cake you can lube the bullets with liquid Alox in an old plastic margarine tub and then size them using a $15 sizing die from Lee that threads into your loading press.
When you buy cast bullets, they are already lubed and sized. The bullets I usually use have a blue lube that appears as a ring around the bullet around the midpoint of the bullet.
I personally don't lube my cases at all when I am using carbide dies. I agree that with a large case it does make things easier with lube, but normally I just size without it. To me, the only way to go with case lube is the spray on stuff. I have had good luck with Hornady One Shot and also the stuff RCBS sells in the pump spray. As was mentioned, rifle case sizing REQUIRES the case to be lubed. Forget it once and the lesson will be firmly engrained in your mind.
 
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