New to shooting rifles, and doing it wrong

[Koreth]

Hello all.

I've only recently started shooting rifles, today was only my third time, but the first on a rifle I own instead of a range rental. My rifle is an Anderson Manfuacturing AM-15, with a set of Troy folding battle sights. No optics.

I attempted to zero and dial in the sights using the targets provided the AR15.com forums here. I used the M4/AR15 carbine 300/25 yard target at 25 meters.

However, for the life of me, I could not get the sights dialed in or get my shots to go where I wanted them to. Even when I had the front sight post bottomed out at 7 clicks and the rear sight windage clicked all the way to the right, my shots were consistently low and to the left, at or about the lower corner of the target.

I'm pretty certain that the cause is operator error, but being new to shooting rifles, I have no idea what I'm doing incorrectly. What would you guys suggest to look for the next time I go to the range?

 

[MrCleanOK]

Find an Appleseed shoot to attend, or an NRA rifle class. You need a qualified person to teach you to shoot. If you're just concerned with the mechanics of getting the rifle zeroed, find a friend that you know can shoot and have him or her zero your rifle.

 

[Bushpilot]

Are you getting tight groups or are you getting large, inconsistent groups? If you're getting tight groups you may be making an error in adjusting the sights (although it sounds like you're adjusting them in the right direction) or it could be the rifle, but that is very unlikely. If you're getting large, inconsistent groups then the error is probably due to you "jerking" the trigger or "flinching". Are you shooting from a rest or offhand? Try a rest or a bi-pod if you’ve been shooting offhand. If you know some one that is proficient with a rifle have them try out yours. Also, you can have them load a single round, or not load it, without your knowing, into your rifle with the safety on and then hand it to you to fire. Then, the first time you shoot it not knowing whether there is a round in the chamber when there isn't one it will be easy to tell if you are flinching because you will notice yourself moving the rifle in anticipation of the rifle firing as the trigger breaks.. Did you have any problems shooting the range rifles that you rented? Good luck..

 

[Koreth]

The grouping seemed to vary. Some groups were decently tight with the shots about an inch and a half of each other. Others were much wider. I was shooting siting at a bench, with the barrel of the rifle on a rest (the range does not permit standing on their rifle lanes).

I did not have any trouble with the range rifles I shot on my prior visits. However, if I recall correctly All of them had red dot sights. On those, my grouping was tighter, but still consistenly off target, It was closer both those times, however. Just an couple inches above and to the right, or below and slightly left.

 

[NeuseRvrRat]

don't put the barrel on the rest. lay the handguard on the rest instead.

 

[Welding Rod]

don't put the barrel on the rest. lay the handguard on the rest instead.

Testify. I watched a shooter get a 6" POI shift at 100 yards, along with erratic groups, resting his barrel on a bag.

 

[jim243]

Do you wear eye glasses and if so for what correction??

Jim

 

[Koreth]

I should be wearing glasses, but it's been years since I have, due to being able to legally drive without them, time, money and other myriad excuses. Last time I did get an exam, I was rated 20/40 astigmatism.

 

[Robert101]

I would remove both front and rear (rail mounted) sights and start over. Install them in the picatanny rail trying to center and slowly torque them down. Let them set in on their own. If this does not center the sights better than something is off. As to the front post, you may need to install a different height front post. I had this problem with a 308LR rifle from the factory. Go back to the range and shoot again. Have fun doing it too.

 

[mf-dif]

Try splatter targets like these. They are much easier to sight in since ARs make tiny holes. Bring something you use as a magnifier too. Either just a set of binoculars or an old scope so you can spot the shots.

http://www.amazon.com/Birchwood-Cas...=1364255141&sr=8-30&keywords=splatter+targets

Next, make sure your rear target is tight (but not over torqued) and set all the way to the rear rail slot. I find that with flip up sights if you have them in the wrong slot they are way off.

This "should" be your sight picture. I tend to use the smaller rear aperture but that's just my preference. I use the outer 2 stalks to center my sight picture. Then the center stalk to adjust for elevation.

Then find a rest, or even just lean over with your elbow on the bench to stabilize yourself. When shooting, slowly squeeze the trigger and control your breathing. Breath in if that helps and hold it. Shoot 3 rounds and then make adjustments.

If that doesn't work get an optic. I'm probably going to get a lot of hate for this but you can use a cheap optic on an AR and it WILL hold zero. The rifle has very little recoil.

I use an NCStar 4X from Amazon and it's a tack driver.

 

[SabbathWolf]

I can honestly say I've never heard of an Anderson AM-15.

 

[yuppiejr]

+1 on the Appleseed suggestion.

 

[courtgreene]

The first time I used an AR15 with iron sights, I wasn't used to the sight picture. On the image MF-dif posted, I was hastily looking through the circle and seeing one of the "ears" (those protector things that stick up next to the front sight pin) and thinking that was my front sight pin. If you have your front sight down low, and you're seeing the "ear" on the right, that would put you down and to the left. Once I figured out that problem, my sight was magically adjustable where it was not before (because i was adjusting it then looking at something that does not adjust). That may be your problem. Let me know, I'm curious now.

 

[Koreth]

Robert101: I'll try that. I don't think I have an incorrect height font sight, as checking that is what motivated me to get the current sights to begin with. I previously had a gas-block mount sight installed on the rail, and thus the front post was way too high, even when bottomed out. I'm talking POI more than a foot below POA at a range of 13 yards. But still, I'll check to make sure I have the right ones and that they're mounted correctly.

mr-dif: If I'm understanding you correctly, those are the kinds of reactive targets that turn bright, high-contrast colors at the point of impact? I'll try those. I hadn't thought of using a pair of binoculars. That will be much more handy than reeling the target back to the bench and sending it back out again every three shots to check my placement and grouping.

The sight picture you post is indeed my sight picture when firing, with one exception. When I focus on the target, the front center post of my sights fuzzes out at as well, and vice versa.

The bench I was shooting at did have room to place one's elbow, but I didn't use it. It felt uncomfortable in comparison to letting my elbow rest by my side.

SabbathWolf: Truthfully, neither had I. But the price was right for a plane-jane AR-15 style rifle (I can afford that), as opposed to the fully tricked-out tacticool rifles on the same wall (the want how much?!).

 

[mf-dif]

Kinda like when you are shooting your pistols, you can only focus on one point of the sight. Line up the ears then focus on the center post and let the rest get blurry like in the picture.

Using a magnifier is a big help. Reeling your target in and out just makes you more frustrated and it's almost like starting all over again since you reset everything and lose focus.

We've all been where you are friend. Just takes practice.