New to the site: Question War Rifle I Recieved.

[2RCO]

Also to answer the OP this would be a WWII rifle in most likelihood.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I remember 30 years ago a friend of mine had a 38 he got from his father and had me shorten and refinish the stock. It had a untouched mum,and I recall a cartouche on the side of the stock. Don't remember if it looked like the mum or not. Guess who sanded it off?:banghead::banghead:

 

[2RCO]

Jim from what I understand 30 years ago that wasn't the sin it is now.

I've heard from the older collectors and shooters I know that you could buy them for $5 (some say less) after the war they were so common.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I know. But still it falls into the " I could have bought Microsoft at x dollars" category

 

[Coronach]

Or, more recently, the "I could have sold AIG at x dollars" category.

Mike

 

[jim in Anchorage]

You had to bring that up. I was blissfully thinking about rifles,now I am back on my 90 year old retirement. Oh well,maybe Wall-Mart will let me work in the gun department,rather than a greeter.

 

[doubs43]

There were usually two chrysanthemums on the Jap rifles, one on the reciever or barrel as shown and another on the back of the bolt.

There is not a second Mum on the bolt of my rifle and the bolt has not been altered in any way. The rear of the safety is milled in a swirl pattern to aid in setting the safety on and off but there's no mistaking that for a Mum.

 

[Twin Digger]

I'll get a picture of the back of the bolt so you can see.. I also took some measurments of the rifle. it came in at 50" overall and the barrel was 31" to the receiver. 17" from the end to the wood stock. What is making me frustrated is the Notch's to hold the gun are gone, and I do see a seam where they were. What is that about? Also their is a small plug in place at the front of the wood stock?? That's what is getting me. Thanks for the help.

 

[Twin Digger]

Jim your information is helpfull. what do you think?

 

[jim in Anchorage]

I'm about out of info.Digger. I'm going off memory here-very old memory. I do highly recommend trying to find the Frank de Hass' book bolt Action rifles. It has a wealth of info on the Arisaka' and about any other bolt action you may encounter. I do know the 31" barrel is correct, tho.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

P.S. to above-I recall that rifle had a cleaning rod in the stock,below the barrel. Since the stock was shortened,the plug was for the cleaning rod hole.

 

[Twin Digger]

Thank you so much. IThat make's sense about the plug. I just can't beleive how it's in such good shape. My Dad said he actually took it from a dead soldier.. I'm never getting rid of it. But What's the value of something like this? Do I have to Register it? and if so will thier be any questions of ownership that might cause a problem?

 

[jim in Anchorage]

As far as I Know, you do not have to register a rifle in Minnesota. But the state is full of libatards,so you may wish to check.

 

[Maul555]

Hi, I was surfing around looking for information on a Japanese arisaka type 38 that I inherited from my grandfather when I stumbled upon this thread. He got it from a dead soldier in WWII as well.

I found this page: http://www.radix.net/~bbrown/japanese_markings.html

It has been a wealth of information. On the lower lefthand side of the chamber, on the outside, there should be a serial number. With that number and the other symbols on your rifle, you should be able to pin down approximately when it was made, and which arsenal/subcontractor made it.


Below is a brief summary of what I have gathered about this rifle:
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A chrysanthemum with 16 petals (the symbol of the Japanese Emperor) was usually stamped on the receiver of rifles manufactured for the Imperial Japanese Army, indicating that the rifle belonged to the Emperor. The chrysanthemum was at least partially ground off of all rifles which were surrendered after the war, apparently as a face-saving gesture. Rifles captured in the field, however, normally have the chrysanthemum symbol intact.

The Arisaka Type 38 is chambered for 6.5mm semi-rimmed case, which is no longer available. According to the ballistics table, the Type 38 fires a 145 grain bullet at 2400 fps...more than enough to kill a man, deer, bear, etc.

6.5 Japanese Arisaka
The Japanese army adopted this chambering in 1897 but the rifle in which it was originally chambered was proven unsafe. That gun was replaced in 1905 with the Model 38 Arisaka, which has proven to be one of the strongest guns ever adopted by any government for military use.

The European designation, 6.5x50R, indicates that this is a (semi) rimmed case and that it is also the shortest of the many 6.5mm military chamberings, all dating from the end of the 19th century. Limited powder capacity results in somewhat limited ballistic potential for this chambering. However, since the action of the Arisaka is so strong, this case can be loaded to its full potential. This allows this diminutive case to produce surprising ballistics and it is a very good choice for use on lesser to medium-sized game animals. Currently, Norma is the sole producer of cases for this chambering.

Ammo: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=719230


My Rifle:
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Type 38 Japanese Arisaka Calvary Carbine Rifle of World War II
Taken in the field

Manufactured by Nagoya Arsenal - ca.1933-ca.1940
Series 26 - 82,873 of 99,999









-----

You should probably find a local shop that that can appraise this for you and give you some advise on care.

 

[Maul555]

btw, I put mine back into working condition. I'm getting some ammo for it, But its $60 per 20 pack locally and $40 per 20 online. that's a bit expensive, so im waiting a bit... From what I have been able to find out online, these rifles, depending on condition, and the chrysanthemum, can go for anywhere from $200 to $800+, but you will want to get yours independently appraised to know for sure. The picture of your rifle looks like yours has had the wood parts Shellaced or something. I know mine is unaltered sense its capture, and it has no Shellac on it. I am not sure how that effects anything though.

 

[Capotuttidecapo]

On your Arisaka type 38 rifle. The verticle symbols top to bottom are three, eight and type. The Mon or Imperial Chrysanthemum has been overstruck with an elongated "M" symbol signifying Military Reserves. This was not crudly done with whatever was available in the field like some rifles or by someone with a hand grinder (like most ) but with a factory stamp. Rifles with post war Mon defacement have the Chrysanthemum totally ground off. Going off on a tangent here I just saw 2 Arisaka type 99 rifles at a gun show. One had US 30 CAL stamped on the Left side and the other US 30.06. I bought the one with US 30 CAL because the Mon was untouched. These were 7.7mm Arisaka type 99's converted to 30.06 by the US Army for Korean troops in 1950. Many Korean troops had been Japanese conscripts and were familiar with Arisaka rifles. Evidently 133,000 Arisakas were converted to 30.06. Solves the ammo problem.

 

[Capotuttidecapo]

One other note. After the War all of the rifles used by all of the combatants were tested until they failed. Of all WWII rifles the Arisaka type 38 had the strongest reciever; Second place went to the type 99. This testing included all WWII rifles including American. Late War Arisaka's were not as well made and "last Ditch" models don't come close and production methods are suspect. Your rifle has some history to it; Going into the Army and then being retired to the reserves. I'll bet the production number on the left side of the reciever is low.

 

[Cannonball888]

Here is an example of a ground Mum on a Type 38 6.5mm Arisaka rifle that was picked up by my uncle from the Okinawa battlefield after the fighting was over. He was an Infantry Platoon Leader and they were tasked to police up arms, etc.

That's interesting that your uncle picked up an Arisaka off a battlefield with a GROUND OFF mum. Sounds like someone's been telling war stories.

 

[Capotuttidecapo]

I read through all of the replys posted on this and some state that the Chrysanthemum Mon was ground off as troops returned here in the States and their captured prizes were inspected.

 

[Storm]

I have a vet bringback Type 99 (in excellent condition) on layaway and no one got to the mum as it is intact. I have seen a few with mums intact but far, far more with them ground. Mine will not be restored as it need not be in any way.

 

[Cannonball888]

the Chrysanthemum Mon was ground off as troops returned here in the States and their captured prizes were inspected

That's a lie perpetuated by shady dealers trying to pass off the numerous ground mum guns as true capture/bringbacks and not a milsurp export. The US didn't grind mums and they had no reason to. Ground mums were ordered by the Japanese military postwar en masse on guns still in their posession. The idea of a ground off mum on a battlefield pickup/capture is rediculous. The US military didn't give a hoot about the emperor's reputation but the defeated japanese military sure as hell did.

BTW, there are fake mums out there too engraved over the grinding. Careful inspection will reveal this.

 

[Storm]

This is the first time I've heard claims that it was the US who ground off the mums. That makes no sense to me. I can understand the Russians peening swastikas, but this thing with the mums seems fabricated.

I've also heard some say that in the European Theater when vets brought back K98 on board the ship they had to remove the bolts and put them in a pile, which is offered to explain mismtached bolts. Anyone know if that one is accurate?

 

[Slamfire]

That's a lie perpetuated by shady dealers trying to pass off the numerous ground mum guns as true capture/bringbacks and not a milsurp export. The US didn't grind mums and they had no reason to.

Like I said in post #4, my gun club has a living veteran of the Okinawa and Iwo Invasions.

Now I am not going to call Sammi a liar, but his experience was his experience, and US authorities ground the crests off his Japanese rifles on US soil.

This obviously did not happen to everyone, I assume the agreement was to grind off crests after the surrender, not before.

By the way, I have talked to some EOD guys. The Japanese had some anti tank mines that look like cool brass flasks. If you have one, don't unscrew the screw cap at the top. It is the timer/detonator. The EOD guy told me, that even after exposure to a salt air environment for more than fifty years, they have never had known one that would not function the main charge.

 

[Storm]

Yeah, I wouldn't call Sammi a liar either. If he was there and saw it, then he saw it.

Just in addition to that, if it was important enough for the US to agree with Japan to grind the mums I would imagine that to be consistent with the Japanese also grinding the mums themselves. So I guess that a ground mum doesn't preclude it being a vet bringback, and I guess some slipped through with the mum intact.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I heard the same story from a veteran who had been a P.O.W. of the Japanese and had tried to bring back a rifle taken from one of the guards.

Japanese guns taken from stores, the field, or brought into the U.S. after the surrender of Japan or given to allies must have the mum removed. Guns that were already in the U.S. were exempt.