New to this whole thing

[Baba Louie]

Luthien-Violet,
Welcome to THR. You're the same age as my daughter and no, she cannot yet purchase a handgun, nor handgun ammunition, from a licensed FFL until she turns 21... so says the law. She can, and has received a gift from me and/or has the opportunity to "borrow" anything in my meager collection, including ammo for practice.
As a seamstress, you do have access to scissors, yes?
Purse carry is oftentimes questionable. My daughter had her purse stolen by a young man who put a gun to her face. Keys, I.D., cell phone, some money, etc. all gone in less than 30 seconds.
Situational awareness, mindset tuned into the "Refuse to be a Victim" mode (RTBAV is a class offered by the NRA, BTW), good sneakers... followed by something sharp (if thats all that is allowed) or something that makes a criminal type rethink his priorities via lead poisoning... all good.
I follow the mindset my father passed onto me as a youngster (and I believe agreed upon by most everyone here) "It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it" followed by "Having it in your hand when you do need it, just might mean you don't have to pull the trigger to stop some idiot from ruining his/your day/life."
Spend some time reading up in the "Strategies and Tactics" forum. Good stuff.
Ask questions.
You're already on the right path methinks.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

The men and women of The High Road are good people! I wish I had known them before I went shopping.

A helluva nice guy named Chris (P95Carry) lives in your neck of the woods. Betcha he'd be willing to help.

 

[Amish_Bill]

I used to live not too far from where you do. It's been so long that I can't recall any good places for you to go. :-(

 

[dsb]

This is what I love to see. What a great community gun owners (generally) are! This High Road place gives me the warm fuzzies.

 

[spacemanspiff]

well i briefly looked throught he pennsylvania laws, and it has its ups and downs.

on the up side, it is a 'shall-issue' state, meaning that when you are 21, and you apply for the concealed weapon permit, if you qualify, the state MUST issue you the permit. some other states are 'may-issue', and its up to a chief law enforcement officer or some other higherup to decide if you are worthy of having a deadly weapon on your person.

the cost of the permit is $19, plus whatever training/fingerprints, etc cost.

the penalty for carrying without a permit is a third degree felony.

the only time a person could have a firearm with them without a permit is if they are a gunsmith, headed to or from the range, to or from a repair shop, or if you are enlisted, member of law enforcement, etc.
in any case, without the permit, the firearm must always be unloaded, basically rendering it useless.

there appears to be no 'loopholes' in your states laws. in my state (alaska), i was lawful to have a handgun with me, if it was unloaded, and in a carrying case designed for a firearm. better than nothing, at the very least i could throw the cased handgun at a bad guy. but then i got the permit and could do whatever i wanted with it.

more good news: you can carry a knife of any size so long as it is not a switchblade. everyone should have a knife of some sort with them at all times anyways. but there are many options as to what kind of knife you will trust your life with.

no mention of pepper spray/mace, so i assume thats good. it should be one of many options.

no mention that mere possession of a firearm while under the age of 21 is unlawful. needs further checking, but you might be able to get away with having a parent buy a handgun for you, as a 'gift'. someone else would have to buy your handgun ammo though, as federal law stipulates that purchasers of handgun ammo be 21 or older.



amongst the folds of gunowners, we are many different things. we are tall, short, round, pencil-thin, and everything in between. some of the biggest carry the smallest weapons. some of the smallest carry the biggest weapons.

now, i didnt see an answer to one of my questions:

what lengths are you willing to go to, in order to preserve your life?

 

[Pebcac]

Let me also bid you welcome!

Tinuviel was dancing there

To music of a pipe unseen,

And light of stars was in her hair,

And in her raiment glimmering.

I'm such a nerd.

Anyway, NRA's Refuse To Be A Victim would be a great place to start gathering info. It covers a lot more than just self-defense with firearms. NRA's RTBAV page

Once you do get a permit, I would recommend against purse carry, if for no other reason than possibly having your purse snatched. You can't have eyes everywhere all at one time. My wife carries in a holster on her hip; it makes her feel better having it right there, and she doesn't have to worry about where her purse is all the time.

Good luck!

 

[jwmoore]

Luthien, welcome to THR from the other side of your state!

SpacemanSpiff: the only time a person could have a firearm with them without a permit is if they are a gunsmith, headed to or from the range, to or from a repair shop, or if you are enlisted, member of law enforcement, etc.
in any case, without the permit, the firearm must always be unloaded, basically rendering it useless.

Granted you're not old enough to get a permit... but, I'm not sure where Spiff got the law cited above, but it's not entirely accurate. He missed one key word: concealed. You don't need a permit to own firearms, and you don't need a permit to carry openly anywhere except Philly. You can read the entire PA Uniform Firearms Act at http://members.aol.com/StatutesP2/18.Cp.61A.html § 6106 is pertinent to this discussion.

I suggest you read them all!

Again, Welcome!

~W

 

[another okie]

A can of pepper spray from Fox Laboratories can be helpful and so can a small but very powerful flashlight such as the Surefire Executive E2. Anytime you go out after dark you should have a flashlight, and the E2 is bright enough to blind someone temporarily. Both Fox and Surefire have good websites. Check your local laws on pepper spray, which is illegal in some cities. Both pepper spray and a flashlight are there to make it possible to run away. Training is a good idea for pepper spray, but not absolutely required. Some self-defense courses include instruction in pepper spray. The different types are worth studying - foam v. spray, etc.

Awareness is the best defense. Look for people who seem out of place, or who seem to not be going anywhere. A group of men with no women around is a bad sign. Someone who approaches you with a complicated story, or someone who stands inappropriately closely are both danger signs. An empty street is dangerous. If your gut tells you something is dangerous, listen to it.

 

[spacemanspiff]

i probably misread some of the statutes at packing.org, so i could be wrong.

 

[Hemicuda]

Violet... Iffin we knew whereabouts (general area, such as "northern Michigan" or "Detroit, Michigan" We could likely find someone on the boards willing to meet you in a public place (or even a group) and introduce you to more firearms, help you learn to shoot well, whatever else you may wish...

you'll PROBABLY even run into some of us who would gladly even provide the ammo... (I've been known to foot the ammo bill for quite a few new shooters in the past...)

 

[Typhoon]

Can't argue much with any replies thus far.

Hi Violet:

Welcome to The High Road.

When I was 18 years old, some low-life murderer called the Nightstalker was running around our neighborhood while I was home from college for summer (Eek - I'm dating myself...oh well). My Dad had to travel overseas a lot and it was only my Mom, sister and me at the house. One day my Dad took me aside and handed me a 12 gauge shotgun. He said that, of the three of us in the house, I was probably the only one who could actually pull the trigger.

Hmmm...I had to think about that for a bit. I came to the conclusion that, Yes, I could if I had to.

Mindset.

Since that time, I have learned to shoot pistols (with lots of instruction - pistol shooting IS a difficult skill to master). And, although my .45 will probably be my firearm of choice in the event of a break-in, I still have that shotgun.

I do, however, live in Los Angeles, so my chance of ever getting a concealed carry license is.....Hmmmph...Yeah right!!!! So, I avail myself of many of the tactics that have already been set forth here - pepper spray, knife, high powered SureFire flashlight. Most of all it is the attitude that I carry with me out on the street. Situational awareness is critical. Walk upright, stay alert, let everyone on the street know that YOU know exactly what is going on. Curt, but polite when approached. Smile, but look at them directly in the eyes when they talk to you. Keep an arms-length distance. All that stuff. Once you start actively practicing it, you'd be surprised at how many people wander around in a state of complete unawareness, blissfully ingnorant. Those are the victims.

So, until you are 21 and can get a carry pistol, long gun for home and all the rest for the street.

Yay! Another strong, right thinking woman for the community.

Take care -

Andrea

 

[MrMurphy]

Welcome!

As others have said, some things about self defense are easy, others are complicated and you never stop learning. I've been shooting for 20 years (I'm 26), seriously shooting for 10 years, and studying warfare, counterterrorism and self defense since I was in grade school. Yes, really.

I know a heck of a lot more than the average person does about most of these subjects and I am quite aware that there's still tons I don't know mostly due to lack of proper training and range time. Even Navy Seals admit theres' things they can learn.


I don't know your size and weight (this does matter) but for most women a 20ga shotgun of either double barrel or pump action type works well for defense if you can't carry a pistol. It packs enough of a punch to put a bad guy down while being controllable. They generally run $200 used and maybe $300 new (sometimes $200 new if they're on sale) for pump actions.

It's all about mindset. I know a 15 year old girl who was raped by a "friend" who was 6' and 200+lbs (she's 5'4 and 125) yet she ripped out a fixed blade knife and wounded him badly enough that he was nearly crippled. He ended up being cornered by cops and committing suicide. Good riddance. She couldn't stop the rape (it was already half over by the time she woke up, she was mildly drugged by pain meds from a dislocated shoulder) but she sure as hell made certain he never did it again.

I know another young lady who was undefended, there was a possible attempted breakin at her place in the boonies. i was there with my .38 revolver, turned out to be a false alarm. After that, she got a knife, flashlight, pepper spray, and before I moved away, I donated a single shot 12ga shotgun and trained her in it's use. She lives on 40 acres in the middle of &(&@ing nowhere with maybe five cops within thirty miles, and she may only have one good shot, but she won't go down without a fight. She's got a 2 year old to protect.

The NRA runs good basic shooting classes and self defence classes, look into those. Talk to some of the other ladies on here and if they're close enough have them take you shooting.

 

[Luthien]

Oh, wow. Tons of replies here. You all are wonderful, honestly, I am very honored. Let's see....

The ‘Refuse to be a Victim’ sounds really, really interesting. I really like what I’m reading here.

IGB, Baba, spaceman, & others- Thank you all for all the information!!!! I’m going to print it out and take it when I meet my parents this weekend, along with some other stuff in this thread. I really appreciate it.

Spaceman- What lengths would I go to save a life? Well, any length, of course. But I have no idea WHAT that would be because I don’t know anything about self-defense. I wouldn’t stand around passively, but as for what exactly I’d do, I don’t know.

Pebcac- LOL. I love that poem. Luthien/Beren was Tolkien’s tribute to his wife. ‘Luthien’ is a hugely pretentious username, no?

You all are so NICE. Thank you for helping a stupid newbie like msyelf.

God bless!
Violet

 

[kudu]

You all are so NICE. Thank you for helping a stupid newbie like msyelf.

Remember Luthien, we were all newbies at one time or another. AND the only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked.

 

[spacemanspiff]

i have yet to see a newb get laughed at or ridiculed for being on a search for knowledge and experience.

luthien, your interest in matters of self defense will lead you to ask yourself many questions. one of which, that we all have asked ourselves, is Am I willing to end someones life to sustain my own?

it isnt a trick question, nor is there any 'correct' answer. there is a mentality though, a certain way of thinking, that helps aid ones decision.

in short, and you will eventually understand it through and through, is that the intent of the responsible citizen who carries some form of weapon for defense, is never to *kill*, but rather, to *Live*.

this mindset is not just to alleviate whatever your conscience tells you is right/wrong, but is also needed should you have to use deadly force. more on that later.

physical training is also helpful, as strength and quick reflexes will defintely help when in a high stress situation.

 

[OF]

Welcome!

People 'come' to firearms for all sorts of reasons, that nagging sense of potential danger often sparked by assaults on aquaintances is certainly one that is cited often.

You can start getting trained/familiarized without actually owning a gun, and I'd recommend diving right in. The NRA's 'Basic Pistol' and 'Refuse to be a Victim' (both of which have been mentioned) are available to you. The NRA is the oldest and largest firearms training organization in the world, and they put alot of time into making those classes the best they can be. Highly recommend those two. After that I'd move to the NRA's Personal Protection class, which is the next pistol class in line after the Basic Pistol. It would be good to have your own gun by then.

After that, I'd seek out some more advanced training of the type that was mentioned above also: Gunsite, Rangemaster, Thunder Ranch, et al. When you're ready for one of those (week-long, three-day, etc.) ask about it again and get some more detail. When you're ready for that step, I'd also move into handgun competition: getting out to local IDPA (International Defensive Pistol Association) or USPSA (United States Practical Shooting Association) matches would be just the ticket. They are as much legal fun as you can have outside of Nevada, and nothing you can do will get you more familiar with your handgun that competing in 'combat'-style pistol matches. Very 'girl friendly' also, so don't sweat it.

In the meantime, you need pepper spray. Outside of the snubnose .38, it's a girl's best friend. Fox Labs is what you want. Get several, they're cheap. Also get some of the 'sudecon wipes' they have - which neutralize the spray (in case you get any on you) and one of their 'inert trainers' so you can see how it works.

A good SureFire or StreamLight flashlight is another great recommendation. Nothing settles the nerves like some serious white light when you need it.

Take people here up on their offers to meet with you and get you introduced to the world of firearms. Anyone that joins a discussion board about guns is 'way into it', and will make a fine tutor. And we're all really nice...really.

A weapon, be it pepper spray, knife, gun, what have you, can be a calming talisman to have, but don't forget that you and your personal decisions are the front line. If your neighboorhood scares you, job one is to get out of there. You don't want to be in any kind of situation where a weapon feels like a necessity rather than a choice. Bad juju.

The first step to being safe is making the decision that you are going to take charge of your own safety. You're on your way. Life is a much more vibrant and interesting place when you've made that decision. Plenty of people think that making conscious consideration for your own defense is akin to living paranoid. Nothing could be further from the truth, as you'll find out.

- Gabe

PS:

Am I willing to end someones life to sustain my own?

An often overlooked first-step question that anyone looking to get into defensive weaponcraft needs to answer right out of the gate. If you have a deadly weapon, you just might kill someone someday. That's part of the burden. It's a decision everyone has to wrestle with. We can help with that too...

 

[hso]

Violet,

Welcome.

You're welcome to come down to Knoxville during break and stay and we'll work up some empty hand, knife, stick, and firearms training for you. There is a knot of THR folks here, 4 of us within 1/2 mile, and between us we could show you how to shoot starting with .22s and working your way up to AR/AKs and shotguns. My wife has started with my MA teacher and the scissors you probably carry with you all the time can do amazing things. He's willing to spend time with anyone that is serious about learning how to fight to survive and would do it for free.

Considering that you've survived possibly the hardest battle anyone can be expected to fight you've obviously got courage and determination. You'll do fine here.

Mike

 

[crebralfix]

Call your local PD and ask about a self-defense class for women. I suspect that it will be for women only. It will probably cost you only time.

Also, call the PD about areas you're thinking about moving to and ask what they think. Odds are they'll be brutally honest. You may have to ask for their crime prevention or property crimes bunch.