New Uberti Pocket Navy with tight and long arbor

[mh2000]

The way it is now, even adding a shim won't do much until the arbor is loosened up. I guess I should sand down the shoulder on the arbor, right?

I guess the fine folks at Uberti didn't think about the difference in dynamic compliance when they changed the design.

 

[sltm1]

Been watching this thread for a while and had the same problem with my Uberti Pocket police arbor being way short. I used Mikes method of drilling and tapping the end of the arbor and using a screw for the "washer". As you can see, there's a bunch of space to be taken up.

 

[denster]

Been watching this thread for a while and had the same problem with my Uberti Pocket police arbor being way short. I used Mikes method of drilling and tapping the end of the arbor and using a screw for the "washer". As you can see, there's a bunch of space to be taken up.View attachment 809164

Works OK as long as you do not drill into the wedge slot because in so doing you destroy the corresponding taper that is there to meet the wedge.

 

[denster]

The way it is now, even adding a shim won't do much until the arbor is loosened up. I guess I should sand down the shoulder on the arbor, right?

I guess the fine folks at Uberti didn't think about the difference in dynamic compliance when they changed the design.

Your gun do it your way.

 

[mh2000]

What would you suggest, denster? I don't have a "way," that's why I'm asking.

Thanks for your input!

 

[mh2000]

Thanks, sltm1!

I was thinking of doing something like that, but does/did your arbor jam up on the shoulder before reaching the shim (IE. or was it already loose) or did you have to reduce the diameter of the arbor first so it would contact your screw head.

Regarding a through hole, my Pietta came from the factory with a pre-drilled and threaded through hole and the wedge seems to work fine in use. (Someone suggested that Peietta probably ran out of the correct arbors and used a Pepperbox one when they assembled my 1851.)

 

[sltm1]

Yes it did, and no I didn't (reduce the arbor diameter). I could tell because the wedge would not stop coming out the other side of the bbl when pressed in, plus when putting the bbl on the arbor sideways, it went past the mating point of the frame and snugged up like a cork in a bottle. Now the wedge barely protrudes, just enough to tap with a mallet. Guess they drill the arbor hole with a semi-pointed drill instead of one with a flat cutting edge and the screw seats in the end taper of the hole.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Ok, just to clear things up.
The biggest misunderstanding by far is that the set screw is for the short arbor fix. It's not (for my use anyway). I've said it at least a million times but for whatever reason, folks want to use it that way. It may work fine for the low power pocket revolvers but it won't hold up for max loads in Armys/Navys and the Horse pistols.
The set screw is purely for a wedge bearing only! As Denster states, some manufacturers cut the arbor slot with a taper. As far as I'm concerned, it's a reproduction introduced setup. The originals I've had the pleasure to photograph and work on didn't have this feature. Piettas for the longest time cut the slot from both sides, leaving a pronounced section for the wedge to bear against ( in other words, a relatively small flat area for the wedge to bear against). Whatever your thoughts are on this subject, are just that, think what you want.
The fact is, the wedge in the originals typically contacted the arbor slot on the left side of the slot (just inside the slot) and only in a "point of contact", not a full contact patch across the width of the slot.. That is the reason for a triangulation. Having full contact would allow for the wedge to "walk" its way loose. A single point of contact allows it to lock in position (Old Volkswagen jacks work on this principal).
So, the set screw is there just for you to have "adjustability". That way, the wedge you have can wear as much as they will and you can compensate for the wear by " adjusting " the set screw in or out as needed /as wanted. Some folks need (or would like) the wedge to not protrude so much to allow for easier holstering. Some would rather it protrude the same on both sides for the same reason. Whatever . . . it's an option . . . (you're welcome! Life is better when you have options!)

Ok, now that that has been addressed (again!! Lol!) the arbor length fix is done with shims or a solid spacer. I used to use a shim stack but I have moved to a solid piece to remove the possibility of compression of adhesive in a shim stack.

So, to recap, set screws are for having adjustable bearing surfaces (options) and shims or a solid spacer is for correcting the arbor length (but not mounted on the end of the arbor!! It just looks dumb!! Lol).

BTW, sltm1 is a smart guy and knows about S.A.'s and this is in no way ment to be an "admonishment" of his use of the set screw. We have talked on several occasions. (Hey sltm1!!)

Mike

 

[mh2000]

Thanks for all the information, Mike!

If this gun already had the threaded hole like my Pietta, I might be tempted to still try sltm1's approach, but since it doesn't, I'm just going to find a thick shim that can just be dropped in. (From my initial measurements, looks like I'll need to something about as thick as sltm1 did.)

I'll also see how it goes without doing anything first and then just shoot it until the arbor/hole gets looser.

So, again, thanks all!

 

[sltm1]

Hey Mike, no problem, it's just a little Uberti Pocket Police so The screw should do fine for as little as I'm shooting these days, and I did misunderstand your reasoning for the screw. I've soldered washers on the arbor ends before.....I was being lazy (easier to drill and tap a hole) since this is my gun.....you know the deal, personal stuff comes last cause you can fix it again if need be LOL

mh2000, go with Mike's advise, I'm just a kitchen table gunsmith with enough knowledge to keep the gun running, not competition ready. Don't keep shooting it regularly without fixing the problem 1st...have fun and make it yours.

 

[44 Dave]

I bought a new 2016 build Uberti '62 Police by the time I got the cylinder/barrel gap down to .002 the wedge was to loose and had to do the "45 Dragoon" arbor screw and still needed to shim the arbor hole in the barrel. With a few other tune ups, cap post and bolt block, this is a pleasure to shoot.

 

[mh2000]

After cleaning up all the internals with stone and files, the action on mine is nice now and I went out shooting it today. Wow, it was depressing how poor my accuracy with it was! My 1851 Navy and 1858 New Army were quite satisfying right out of the box (even if high), but this was way way high and I wouldn't even call what I got "groups." Will have to shim the arbor tomorrow--maybe that will bring down the aim--and I'll give it another go. Might have to sight this one in too. I guess lightweight and shorter barrel hurting me as well... but it's a sweet little gun! On the bright side, I shot 30 rounds through it without the wedge coming loose or suffering a *major* jam. Another thing, the .375 balls my Pietta 1851 Navy likes are way too small for this gun (barely shaved any lead off, but still pretty snug). Will have to get some .380 balls next time I'm at the store!

 

[Stormson]

So once AGAIN Uberti Colts take second place to Pietta... And from what youre saying about the internals maybe even third or forth place... Out of the two. How surprising.

Dont get me wrong.. I have long wished that I had started with UBERTI Remingtons... But their Colts? Nah.. No thanks. Pietta has been quietly, and for years, making theirs better and better. Of course the Uberti fanboys would naver have noticed.. They are so busy fixing Ubertis how COULD they?

My 2016 Pietta Colt is a like a DREAM. Damn thing is so slick it FEELS like a brass frame even though its steel. Of course it went across the Taylors smitthy bench before I ever got it.. But MAN that thing is SWEET. I even slapped an old kit guns G&G barrel on it and guess what? It fit like a vice and hit 5 in the 9 ring offhand in VERY informal (read backyard of a buddy of mine, just cos we got bored that day) at about 15yrds. G&G barrel was so rough that whoever did it never even took the tooling marks off.. Still... NAILED it.

Its a SIMPLE thing. Uberti built up an almost fanatical following years ago when Pietta was just starting out and wasnt bringing their A game. They KNOW it, and they RELY upon it. Why fix problems when people will not only excuse them, but actually take UP for them? Now the internals are sliding off as well? Same reason... Pride and greed... Why put the money into good internals when people will not only excuse them, but actually take UP for them?

Meanwhile... the little scrawny kid on the block, Pietta, has been quietly eating protein powder and working out with heavy weights in the basement...

Said it a thousand times and Ill say it again...Uberti Remingtons and Pietta Colts. Though, from your reports of the internals Im now starting to question even that.

Just wish they would get off theyre butts, strike the final blow and start making slimmer, more period correct guns, and more MODELS. They HAVE over taken Uberti, whether the fanboys like it or not, and they have kept their pricepoint while doing it... But they are seriously messing up by leaving people with no CHOICE but Uberti when it comes to far too many models...

Shrugs.. My take on the whole situation. Sad to say, but if you want a WORKING Colt youll have to choose from a Pietta model, if you want that pocket model (a damn nice thing to have) youre gonna HAVE to do the work that Uberti SHOULD have done at the factory...

Rant over.. I sure hope that both the Pietta AND Uberti gods heard it.. LoL

 

[mh2000]

Haha! Wasn't trying to go down this path, but from my examples, I'm more impressed with the much cheaper Piettas. I mean, maybe my Pocket Navy is just a hangover Monday build, but the internal parts are much rougher and the fitting a lot sloppier than my two Piettas. Out of the box, it barely cocked, jammed up etc. It was pretty terrible. I *had* to attend to every surface just to get it to work properly (not just to make it better, it wouldn't reliably cycle before doing it!). Granted, none of that was very hard to do, but being the more expensive gun maker, I was expecting more I guess. It works, but the fitting of the hand was done so poorly and unevenly that next time I order other parts that I am going to buy a replacement hand just so I can do a better job on it.

Granted, it's a beautiful little gun and I'm happy that I got it and there wasn't an alternative, so I'm not trying to rant against Uberti or anything, I'm happy the gun was available, but still, at $300, it's kind of pricey to be such a do-it-yourselfer "kit." The cosmetics of the exterior of the Uberti does seem a little nicer than my Piettas.

Just curious, why do you choose Uberti Remingtons over Pietta? My Pietta 1858 was darn near perfect right out of the box! I don't think I even gave it a proper cleaning before shooting it the first time and every aspect of it has been perfect.

My Pietta Colt Navy handles like a dream as well and I've done almost nothing to it. (I tried smoothing out the sharp corners of the hammer face because numerous people said this helps with the cap jamming--but I didn't notice much improvement).

Best!

 

[45 Dragoon]

Stormson, nice dream but it's time to wake up. Uberti and Pietta have been in business for the same amount of time. About 1960.
Pietta makes a good product today, but that product is the same window with different drapes hung on it. They once made Walkers, 1st, 2nd,3rd and Whitneyville Dragoons and others I'm sure but today, they have reduced the offerings to one basic frame with different cyls and barrels (just as you pointed out), many of which were never offered. I think it's great to give folks options (historic or not) but it's still cheaper to produce one car and offer different colors.
Uberti on the other hand still produces pocket models, horse pistols, belt pistols and . . . . they're of correct size . . . . The famous Colt 2nd gen open top revolvers were derived from Uberti castings and parts . . . . and some barrels from ASM . . . . not Pietta's.

The action parts in Uberti's today are light years ahead of Piettas parts. Even Sam Colt would agree they're better than what he had. They are excellent in proportion, finished very nicely and require much less work for the tuner. Pietta parts are still thick, just like the 70's parts, and require a lot of work. Neither maker has a hammer cam worth a damn as far as consistency.

The point is, there's not a factory offered S.A. revolver that wouldn't benefit from being tuned to some degree. It's the same with anything mechanical. Individual attention is always better than the mass produced item.

So, as much as you like to holler your opinion about how great a particular companies item is, it's still a "one trick pony". On the other hand, others may enjoy the many offerings ( how many offerings should there be? Pietta doesn't even make my favorite!) that Uberti produces so they can choose what they like. Shame shame I know but it just sucks that folks have options and plenty to choose from . . . .

Maybe you could tell us what the "smith' did to your 2016 to make so sweet and slick? Does it have wire springs instead of flats? (That's what they usually do and that's about it). Did they put a Ruger type (in the frame) hand spring in it? How bout the left bolt arm, is the corner rounded where it joins the body to remove the stress to prevent breaking?
It's funny what folks "know" till they don't know.
Mike

 

[denster]

Stormson, nice dream but it's time to wake up. Uberti and Pietta have been in business for the same amount of time. About 1960.
Pietta makes a good product today, but that product is the same window with different drapes hung on it. They once made Walkers, 1st, 2nd,3rd and Whitneyville Dragoons and others I'm sure but today, they have reduced the offerings to one basic frame with different cyls and barrels (just as you pointed out), many of which were never offered. I think it's great to give folks options (historic or not) but it's still cheaper to produce one car and offer different colors.
Uberti on the other hand still produces pocket models, horse pistols, belt pistols and . . . . they're of correct size . . . . The famous Colt 2nd gen open top revolvers were derived from Uberti castings and parts . . . . and some barrels from ASM . . . . not Pietta's.

The action parts in Uberti's today are light years ahead of Piettas parts. Even Sam Colt would agree they're better than what he had. They are excellent in proportion, finished very nicely and require much less work for the tuner. Pietta parts are still thick, just like the 70's parts, and require a lot of work. Neither maker has a hammer cam worth a damn as far as consistency.

The point is, there's not a factory offered S.A. revolver that wouldn't benefit from being tuned to some degree. It's the same with anything mechanical. Individual attention is always better than the mass produced item.

So, as much as you like to holler your opinion about how great a particular companies item is, it's still a "one trick pony". On the other hand, others may enjoy the many offerings ( how many offerings should there be? Pietta doesn't even make my favorite!) that Uberti produces so they can choose what they like. Shame shame I know but it just sucks that folks have options and plenty to choose from . . . .

Maybe you could tell us what the "smith' did to your 2016 to make so sweet and slick? Does it have wire springs instead of flats? (That's what they usually do and that's about it). Did they put a Ruger type (in the frame) hand spring in it? How bout the left bolt arm, is the corner rounded where it joins the body to remove the stress to prevent breaking?
It's funny what folks "know" till they don't know.
Mike

Have you had the opportunity to work on any of the Pietta Walkers or Dragoons? I'm guessing they are pretty rare.

 

[mh2000]

So I went to Ace hardware with my calipers and the only thing that offered the correct thickness to shim my arbor was this M2.5 nut. It's a little small diametrically, but what do you think? My gap with it in place is around 0.008".

Thanks!

 

[Stormson]

Mh2000, I like the grip and frame size on the Uberti Remintons better then the beefier Piettas, I also like the dovetailed gront sight that come with many and the fact that its a forged frame... But if the internals are starting to slip in grneral and not just your gun (and again, why WOULDNT they be in this age of everything going cheaper and faster?) then that opinion may get reconsidered here in the near future...

Mike, Im telling ya man, the parts from Pietta seem to be getting better all the time... And it looks like the parts from Uberti may be slipping off at the same time, though I admit one bad example cant be relied on to make that conclusion.. it still bears watching IMO. Ive never personally seen a Pietta Walker or Dragoon.. That would be really cool! I really wish they would bring out a LOT more models... They have proven they can make quality arms at lower prices, so why not go all the way? No, he didnt NEED to replace any springs that I can tell... Just slicked em up and timed it perfect... Havent had a broken spring, or ANY problem, yet and its the smoothest one I got except the old brass framed ASM and its pretty near as nice. NICER then my brass G&G really...

 

[sltm1]

Get a few flat washers, add them to the arbor one or a few at a time after stacking them using a thin layer of crazy glue to hold them together and knock them off one at a time till you reach the right depth (hot glue stick wors fine, jus compress between each washer. Those hard corners on the nut might give you a false reading because they'll cut into the surrounding opening and cut a new depth as you shoot it more.

 

[mh2000]

I bought some thin washers and two is too little and three too much (with two, it still hits arbor shoulder first and three, the wedge doesn't even go all the way through. The corners are rounded downward on these nuts, so no point contact with the gun. I took it out shooting it like that today and there is zero evidence of any wear or galling. Going to try figuring out something better, but until then, this is probably workable. Sadly, it didn't improve my accuracy!

 

[45 Dragoon]

Stormson,
This is a pair of Pietta bolts. The bolt on the right has had the corner radiused (where the left arm joins the body) but otherwise is how they look from the factory. Notice how thick both arms are?
The bolt on the left has had the left arm thinned. The thin arm will flex much easier and resist breaking. It will also take much less power for that arm to reset as opposed to the thick one.

The same part from Uberti comes thinned already. I know this probably doesn't seem like a big deal, but it really is. Attention to detail and parts finish along with excellent material from factory takes much less time for the "tuner" to get it "right".

These refined action parts (including the hand) are part of the extra expense for the Uberti. The same parts in a Pietta take much more time just to get them shaped correctly.
The original parts in the 1st gen open tops look like the parts you'll find in the Uberti today, not like anything you'd find in a 70's offering from any of the makers at that time or Piettas today.

By the way, I see these parts on new and used guns every day, basically 7 days a week. I've seen them . . . .

Denster, no I haven't and I think you are correct about them being fairly rare. I don't have any idea of how many were made or when. From some of the pictures I've seen, they look to be of 60's type vintage and I'm not sure they wouldn't be just as scary to work on as any others from then.

MH, it's easier to arrive at the bbl/cyl clearance you want by just slightly " oversizing the shim stack or plug and then dressing the end of the arbor until you get your number.

Mike

 

[denster]

Actually Pietta Walkers and Dragoons are more than fairly rare they are non existent since Pietta never made any. Palmetto and ASM did but not Pietta.

 

[mh2000]

>> MH, it's easier to arrive at the bbl/cyl clearance you want by just slightly " oversizing the shim stack or plug and then dressing the end of the arbor until you get your number.

Thanks, Mike! With a lack of real metal working equipment I don't have a lot of easy options, but I've found a short length of aluminum rod stock of the proper diameter and am thinking I can cut it down with a hack saw or dremel and sand down to proper thickness. Even though not as stiff as steel, I think I could get there starting a little thick (as you recommend) and bringing it down slowly.

Regarding gap distance, do you have a recommendation? I've read that Colt specifications were 0.006-0.008". I'm at 0.008" currently and am pretty happy with the wedge placement, but think I might try going down to 0.007" (I want the the wedge to hang out enough when installed so its easy to tap out.)

Thanks for your help!

 

[mh2000]

Actually, scrap the aluminum idea... I was just looking at what is in my tool box and not thinkinng about galvonic corrosion... could be bad (espeically if not completely dry after cleaning).

 

[mh2000]

Other than going shooting with my son and fooling around with my 1862 Pocket Navy, I wrote and recorded this song... people who like guns and wide open spaces may identify with it.