Newb reloading issues.. fat cases, shorter cast loaded rounds

[Molnah]

Let me preface this by saying im a newb, obviously.

I have set up my Hornady Lock n Load press as the directions indicated, I have read the Lyman's and Lee manuals, and I've done tons of research online. Obviously not enough.

I am using Proofmark 125gr RN cast bullets and once fired brass (mixed HS)

My problems(see pic below):

-The case bulges at the bottom even once I run it through the FL RCBS sizer(notice the taper of the case walls in the left 3 cases. Notice how straight the 2 walls of the WWB factory on the right are, especially compared to the left 3.

-Once I do load the case, if I load it at the same OAL as the WWB factory case, it looks as though the cast bullet isn't far enough in the case(3rd from right, notice the ridge in the bullet is a bit above the case lip) If I adjust the seating depth to be even with the ridge in the cast bullet, the OAL is now a bit shorter than the factory WWB round. Is this OK?

-I've run into an issue with the press, it doesn't always index all the way to the next ball detent hole on the upstroke leaving the shell holder about an 1/8" short of center, meaning I've run a few cases into the wall of die. I've adjusted the right pawl slightly to raise the pawl, but every say 100 strokes I have to adjust it again. Ideas?

-Last, the case to the far left has been sized and expanded, does it look like there is to much or not enough flare in the case mouth to accept the cast bullet? Everything I've seen indicates I'll "know" what the sweet spot is for expansion, but I have played with it, and I don't "know" it. I feel like it works, I can drop a cast onto the top, seat it and you can see the final product below. Is that all I need to worry about?

 

[GLOOB]

Case bulges at bottom:
Sizing dies don't go all the way to the rim. They usually size a little too small where they end, so that the base gets squeezed small enough by proxy. Thus, they won't be entirely straight, like a new case. This is particularly true for a luger carbide die. The sizing is done by a ring, which can't replicate the taper of a luger case. If you carefully measure the dimensions of your reloads, they might be bulged slightly, but I bet they are much narrower above the bulge compared to a new case, creating the illusion of a bulge. If in doubt, chamber check your ammo.

OAL: highly variable, depending on bullet and individual gun.

 

[Molnah]

So the bulge and the short OAL isn't neccesarrily a bad thing?

Should I be seating the bullet all the way into the case so that the groove is even with the lip of the case? I feel like that is what the groove/lip in the bullet is for is for

I loaded 13 in a mag and was able to chamber and eject the entire mag by hand with not one issue. Is this a good indicator that both the bulge and the OAL are going to be OK?

 

[GLOOB]

With an appropriate powder charge, you should be good. One more thing to check:

Take your barrel out of the gun and drop your reloads in. They should drop in with a clink - case mouth hitting chamber. If they don't clink, you're spacing on the bullet. This is generally not recommended, because it MAY cause increased peak pressure and more leading, even though some shooters purposely space this way for certain loads - usually rifle shooters striving for accuracy.

 

[k4swb]

Your first seated lead bullet on the left is seated in the proper area. The next one is not deep enough. You really shouldn't seat that bullet to where the crimp would fall in the lube groove.
As far as the bulges go, if they chamber and fire shoot them.

 

[BYJO4]

OAL varies slightly depending on the bullet used. You are comparing a cast lead bullet to that of FMJ. Seat the upper rim of your bullet almost flush with the mouth of the case as you did in the second case. Apply your taper crimp in a seperate operation using crimp die only.

 

[TX expat]

My Missouri Bullet 125 gr. bullets seat lower than others. The best thing you can do is tailor the bullet OAL to the pistol it's going into, as someone else already mentioned. This will give you the best performance out of your 9mm loads.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

Can't help with your press trouble.
The flare on your case is fine, especially with that bullet. It looks to have a chamfer on the bottom, it should press in very easy. Just make sure you crimp the flare of the case.
The shorter of the two you loaded is better than the other. I would try something in between the 2 and drop it in my gun\s. There shouldn't be any resistance dropping it in.
I load LRN also. They won't load to factory FMJ specs as I found out. You have to get past the lube ring.

A little more free advice, don't load 200 of them and find out they don't work in your gun. A guy at the club did that and ended up shooting a single shot auto, 300 times to burn them up rather than pulling them apart...
Load maybe 20 and try them. If all goes well, have at it!

 

[Molnah]

I tried the shorter version, and it drops in with a nice ploop. It sounds identical to dropping a factory loaded round in.

I have only 'loaded' about a dozen, and they aren't even live. No powder and no primer. I'm just trying to fine tune the dies before I load any live rounds. I figure once fired brass and cast bullets are cheap enough to justify a few practice rounds before the real fun.

 

[rfwobbly]

I have only 'loaded' about a dozen, and they aren't even live. No powder and no primer. I'm just trying to fine tune the dies before I load any live rounds. I figure once fired brass and cast bullets are cheap enough to justify a few practice rounds before the real fun.

And that is exactly correct !! Good for you.

The flare is right when you stop shaving lead off. The flare for lead is larger than that for plated or jacketed. If you shoot both, then set the flair up for lead.

You want to seat your bullet deep enough to where the cartridge will drop all the way into the naked chamber under it's own weight. Your crimp diameter will effect this test too, so make sure you're crimping somewhere around .379-.378, OK?

The bullet on the left looks really good. Now go find a load for that weight lead bullet with that OAL.

Often times the case bulge will look more like a coke bottle, or Mae West. As was said, it''s the way the dies work the tapered case. Different dies do it to different extents. They all shoot just fine.

Call Hornady help line. They're very helpful and may offer a warranty part or special advice you can't get here.

 

[Molnah]

So on to beginners question 4. You say to find a load for this weight and OAL... I was planning to use the recomended load from th lee manual for this weight cast bullet however it only gives the one OAL for all of it's 9mm loads, the loads aren't specific to OAL in both the Lee and Lymans manuals. Is it OK to use the standard recomended load for a cast 125gr RN or should I find one that is specific to both the cast 125gr AND the shorter OAL?

I guess as a piggyback to that question, how does OAL affect a charge size generally? Or are the two not so much related but in extreme circumstances

 

[Peter_S]

I guess as a piggyback to that question, how does OAL affect a charge size generally? Or are the two not so much related but in extreme circumstances

The deeper you seat the bullet the more you increase the pressure and yes, your charge will necessarily be lower. Small changes can increase pressures significantly. You should see if you can find a load with the same bullet, OAL and powder.

 

[k4swb]

You can seat the LRN bullet anywhere as long as you keep the top of the case somewhere on the top driving band. This will give you somewhere to crimp to. The finished round needs to work in the magazine and fit the chamber and not fall out of the case. Usually the longer the better.
Staying with the above, shallower MIGHT give less pressure and deeper MIGHT give more pressure but this can be adjusted with powder charge weight. I can't measure the driving band on that bullet but you're probably looking at less than .100" of play area. That isn't alot.

 

[BADUNAME37]

If the Seating Die is RCBS, call them, I had that problem with 380. They sent me a new seating die for free.

I also bought a Lee Factory Crimp Die that gets rid of that bulge.

BEWARE, the crimp is not tight at all! You don't want the edge of the case sinking into the sides of the projectile! Mic the case diameter just below the crimp and right at the crimp. It should be very little crimp - barely noticeable and barely measurable! Otherwise you chance distorting bullets fairly easily which may throw your accuracy way off.

Just watch out for bullets that may jump or otherwise be moving in the case mouth, that is what you don't want!

 

[GLOOB]

Rule of thumb: at a starting charge, don't sweat the OAL for luger. As long as you're seating it a reasonable length, pressure won't change that much. If it makes you feel better, you can back off a tenth or two.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

I'm looking in my Lee manual @125gr "lead bullet". Most of those recipes call for Min OAL of 1.150.
If that length gets the lube ring on the bullet inside the case, I would make up one dummy and see if it drops in your chamber.
If it doesn't put the lube ring inside the case, seat it as needed to do so. Like somebody else said, if your using a starting charge you should be fine.
If I was using that bullet, I would be shooting for the case mouth to sit halfway between the lube ring and the shoulder.

Don't let all the cautions in the manual get your nuts in a ringer. Yes you need to be careful, but don't over think it too much.
Remember, light tapered crimp!

 

[rfwobbly]

The deeper you seat the bullet the more you increase the pressure and yes, your charge will necessarily be lower. Small changes can increase pressures significantly. You should see if you can find a load with the same bullet, OAL and powder.

• Pete gave you some great info. If you were shooting 45ACP or 38 Spcl then those are such large volume/ low pressure cartridges that seating deeper would be OK if you were sure to begin at the "starting load" and work up. But IMHO the 9x19 is a high pressure cartridge and nothing to play a guessing game with. You always want to have a really good idea what's going to happen BEFORE you pull the trigger. That's simply basic safety. That means deriving all your loads from published information.

• Every published load is tied to an OAL, you need to read very carefully and find it. Varying OALs is why reloaders collect a library of manuals and powder company pamphlets. Somewhere out there is a load for you at your bullet weight and your OAL. Friends here will direct you if you need help. They'll need the bullet composition (lead, plated, jacketed), the bullet weight, the intended OAL, and the powder.... all together in one post.

 

[Molnah]

Thanks for all the help.

I loaded 100 using Unique and 100 using Bullseye according to the Lee spec's. Hopefully they go boom as they are supposed to, otherwise, i'll have quite a few paperweights. I'll let you know tomorrow, I've got a date with the indoor range in the A.M.

I used the Lee manual recomendation to keep a minimum OAL of 1.150, I kept all of my loads between 1.175 and 1.18 and taper crimped them all at .378 also on the manual and this posts recomendation.

Using the Unique powder, I noticed that with the minimum charge(5.2gr if I remember correctly) practically fills the 9mm casing all the way with powder. If I seated the bullet fully into the casing, I think the powder would get compressed. Is this normal? Is this an indicator that I probably shouldn't use unique for my 9mm reloads?

Another question, lets say somebody, not naming any names, loaded his/her primer feed tube with small primers, but forgot to swap in the small primer "bus" and small primer punch and left the large ones installed installed like a dummy, and that unnamed person tried to load 4 rounds which resulted in uneven or protruded primers unable to be pressed any further into place rendering these 4 rounds useless, yet with a live primer. What would this annonymous person do with the 4 rounds with live primers but are unusable? I would think it would be wreckless to just toss them in the trash. Maybe soak them then toss them? I don't know, I've never had to dispose of anything explosive before

 

[Walkalong]

Judging by the lube that has been scraped to the top in the two loaded lead rounds I would say to flare just a hair more.

The O.A.L. on the shorter loaded lead round looks fine, especially since they ran by hand through a mag for you.

The bulge is normal and shows good neck tension. It would be a waste of time, and possibly even detrimental, to use an FCD to "get rid" of it.

You need to crimp just enough to remove the flare or a hair more. I adjust my crimp so that the shortest cases get the bell fully removed while the longest cases get a slight inward (.001 to .002) crimp. Your seater will do this just fine, but if you want to crimp in a fourth step to take advantage of the somewhat easier set up, any crimp only die will work, including the $10 Lee die. I would stay away from the "mistake fixer" (FCD) for now, and learn the craft.

Run those four cases with the bad primers through the sizer again to knock out the primers. Won't hurt a thing. Spray them and toss them in a scrap can by themselves or with the scrap brass. (I just sold over $100 worth of fired primers the other day)

I am unfamiliar with that brand of cast bullet, but judging by the seam it shows it appears to be sloppily cast. I would consider another source when you need bullets again.

 

[35 Whelen]

O.A.L.'s can vary greatly. I pay very little attention to generic o.a.l.'s in the manuals. Now if the Hornady manual says to seat their 124 gr. FMJ at 1.xx", that's another thing. But so much published data will give a single o.a.l. for a single weight bullet. Thing is, not only will o.a.l.'s vary by by bullet brand, they will vary widely by bullet type. A 115 gr. bullet may come in roundnose, flatpoint/truncated and hollowpoint.
Personally, I base o.a.l.'s for my autos first on magazine length. The have to fit and function out of the magazine most of all. Next, how well they chamber.
35W

 

[GLOOB]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

Unique and luger loads: yeah, they'll be compressed.

If I seated the bullet fully into the casing, I think the powder would get compressed. Is this normal?

If you're doing a max charge, you'll KNOW for certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt that you'll be compressing the powder quite a bit! A max charge for a 115 gr bullet will be nearly level with the case mouth.

I'm loading 5.8 grains Unique behind a 124 grain MG JHP. When I pick up a charged case, the powder is so high, I can feel it under my finger tip. And because the throat on one of my guns is short, I seat them to a rather short OAL of 1.08" (disclaimer: this is below minimum OAL at the max manufacturer recommended charge, do not try this load without proper precautions). The powder gets compressed quite a bit. It's not a problem.

Unique is my favorite powder for 9mm and .45!

 

[Molnah]

The range was a success! 200 'test' loads, 200 succesful discharges. Pretty good average.

I wasn't thrilled with loading the 9mm with Unique. It seems to be a bit lighter than bullseye, because when my press (LockNLoadAP) indexes a loaded cartridge to the tapercrimp die, the press "snaps" into place (when the ball detent releases and catches again on the next position) and when it snaps, it flings a little of the Unique out. Is this normal? Its usually only a few morsels(?), but its enough to make a mess after 100rds loaded. Is this normal when using Unique in a small casing like a 9mm, or does it sound like soemthing is to tight in my press?

Also, how will I know if my rounds caused leading in the barrel or not? I need to clean my guns today, but I ran out of aerosol cleaner and forgot to pick more up.

 

[soloban]

You should try PowerPistol in your 9mm loads. I use it in my 9mm and my .45ACP loads and get great results. Meters like a dream, burns clean, punchy powder, and has a pleasant almost black pepper smell when it burns.