Newbie Q: mixing ammo?

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Selvagee

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Reading some of the older threads here it seems like there is always a lively debate over choice of ammo for self-defense. I have a 9mm, and there's lot's of arguing the merits of 115/124/140ish bullet weight, etc. Not trying to open up any of this again!

Has anyone tried alternating two types of ammo in the magazine to maybe get the best of two different worlds? Is there a reason this would be a bad idea?

"Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice ..."
 
Over time - I have seen numerous mentions/suggestions re ammo mixing. Whether in an auto mag or revo cylinder ... not something I want to do.

For a start - how does one decide what ''sequence'' .. and second - it seems unlikely you'd remember either. In the ''heat of the moment'' .. there will be no time for decision-making re which bullet comes out the spout and in what order.!

My thinking is - keyword - consistency. Both in ballistics, trajectory etc and .... reliability. If I carry a particular load it is because I have proved to my own satisfaction that it performs as I want and allows for reliable gun function. The final choice as to hardball, JHP etc ... entirely up to the individual and the gun platform, caliber etc.

So many variables .. why introduce more!
 
describe the two worlds

Heh. Sounds like a dinner conversation with my wife ;)

But in this case I was thinking of the fast/light vs. slow/heavy bullet debate.
 
Ammo cocktails don't seem to have much utility. Find a well-constructed defensive load that you can hit well with and burn up as much as you can afford in practice.
 
I once knew a part-time cop who loaded his revolver with two expanding bullet rounds for first up, then two high speeds for the next shots, then metal penetrating for the next two. His theory was that he would be shooting at a bad guy closeup, and if the first shots didn't work, the next two would be fired at the BG running away, then the BG would get in a car for a getaway, when the metal piercing would be used.

It was silly then, and still is. I never asked him what would happen if the scenario he had all worked out was reversed. I was afraid to mess with his tiny little mind.

Jim
 
This is usually called "staggering" and is generally a bad idea. Find one good solid load and stick with it.
 
I've heard of this being done in revolvers carried in the woods. The first round or two are snakeshot and the rest are normal.

ps.. I've heard alternating HP/FMJ or fast/slow referred to as a Dutch Load. No idea why.
 
I toyed with the notion when I owned a .380 Bersa. I thought it would actually make some sense in a caliber not known for its combined ability to penetrate and expand, but I've long since abandoned the caliber.

The only other time I mixed ammo was in the last stage of my most recent IPSC match, having drawn more heavily on my supply than usual. So I borrowed a few brand name FMJs, a few hollowpoints (yeah, somebody was in it with hollowpoints) and even a few wildcats for good measure.

As far as accuracy, it made no difference. As far as penetration and expansion...

...whadja think: I would dig 'em out of the berm? :p
 
I'll be contrarian and say it doesn't make a lotta difference as long as all rounds function reliably. Try out your "mix" at the range on a silhouette target and see if you can put 2 COM and 1 in the head consistently. If you can, and you like your mix, go with it. I see no compelling argument not to.
 
I'm no expert

but I mix my 642 (primarily for when in the house)...

The first 2 shots are Glaser Silvers, the other 3 are Hollowpoints. All my Speedloaders are straight hollowpoints

I figure that if I can get him /her on the way up stairs or in a hallway without going through a wall, great, if I need a 3rd shot or more, he is already in a room, won't matter or may need to go through a wall anyway.

I have a kid on the way, and figured that this is the way to go.

I don't bother to change this for carry other than in the house, as I don't see it as an issue to make the effort.
 
I agree with Chris, although I have been known to carry JHPs and FMJs, I keep them in seperate magazines.
 
I have never seen or heard any good reason to mix ammo in a carry situation. The only time I ever mix loads is when I am testing a pistol for reliable function and, even then, the practice is dubious - done mostly for fun.

The main reason, for me, at least, that I would not do it is that reliability could suffer. It might run while the weapon is clean but that might not be the case after a few rounds. I am just not willing to take that chance. I like to know that every round will go to the same spot each time as long as I do my part.

Oh yeah, if you need more penetration than your regular carry load gives you it is entirely possible that you brought the wrong gun to the fight to begin with.
 
Oh yeah, if you need more penetration than your regular carry load gives you it is entirely possible that you brought the wrong gun to the fight to begin with.
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Or maybe you brought what you are comfortable with? I'm not concerned about reliability of a 642. I concerned about missing the first shot, or not getting a solid hit, having the bullet go through the wall and hitting my baby.

It might run while the weapon is clean but that might not be the case after a few rounds.
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I only mix the first two, anyway, so I guess that this is a moot point.

M
 
Cocktails, anyone?

Why SURE!

I keep my Bersa .380 loaded with 4 FMJ's (1 in the chamber) and after that, 4 Gold Dot JHP's. This is what I practice with, this is what I carry. (no jabs for carrying a .380 - at least i CARRY it, a .380 on your person beats a 50BMG at home every time)

My reason? It makes me feel good. :rolleyes:

But really, I consider it an 'escalation of force' - if the weak, lighter-than-9mm FMJ's just bounce off the BG's shirt, then when they're gone at least I've got something that comes out about 500 FPS faster and opens up to nearly 1/2 inch diameter in the right circumstances. In the wrong circumstances, well, it's still gonna be comparable (read: the same)diameter and speed to most 9mm & .38spl rounds.

Thats my take.

In my 7-shot .357 you will find:

1 - #9 shot followed by
3 - 38spl Gold Dot Hollow Points followed by
3 - .357 Cor Bons

My reasons? The #9 tells anybody/everybody i'm very serious about you leaving NOW, stop your threat and leave, plus a bonus chance to live. Beyond that, I'm hoping the sitation can be resolved in 4 shots or less. That way I get to remain in the world of the non-deaf. If it takes more than 4 shots, well, I may have to learn sign language, and the BG may end up in more than one peice, but I'll still be here.

In my shotty you will find:

4 - 000 Buck (3")
4 - 1oz. Slugs (3 - 3" and 1 - 2.75")

These are staggered, with the buck first.

My reason? Well, I must not lie, I copied the local sheriff on this one, except they've got 00 instead of 000.

Welp, those are the only guns I can think of that I use cocktails in, hope that gives you another perspective.

All the folks talking about it being a bad idea, well, it is, for them. Guns have to be reliable, and if to you a cocktail mag makes the gun less reliable, or if you've tested it and it wont feed right (in the case of an automatic) or if you never practiced with cocktails so you have no idea what the difference in feel between shots is, then stick with 1 round. Your confidence alone may make the difference in your survival one day.
 
Aside from discernably different rounds recoil-wise, I can't really find anything wrong with ammo cocktails. Ive tried to, believe me. My buddy staggers 2 different types of rounds in his carry peice, a SIG P239 9mm...logic being that if one type doesent expand well enough from the short barrel, or perform well otherwise, the next one will. I can't really argue, because I simply can't come up with a convincing enough argument. If someone can, I'd like to hear it...Assuming that: All rounds in the cocktail feed well and have been proven together in magazines at the range -and- who's recoil characteristics are not noticably different from one another.
 
Ex-MA Hole, I think you missed the point. Most people either way under or over-estimate the potential for penetration of their handgun rounds. The point I was trying to make is that, most of the time, whatever you have loaded will be enough if you do your part as most of us are not assaulting a fortified enemy bunker.

Also, if you will go back and read the original post, the question was concerning 9mm ammo which usually runs from a pistol rather than a revolver (if it had been a revolver I'm sure it would have been stated). So, you see, you got all offended and waved the bloody baby for nothing.
 
I've always kept at least one FMJ in each of my handguns. Used to carry 7 Hydrashoks followed by one 230 Gr FMJ. Replaced by 8 165 Gr Golden Sabers in the G23 and three 180 Gr FMJs. Currently 124 Gr +P Georgia Arms Gold Dots with three S&B FMJs. 686 house gun had four blue Glasers followed by two 158 Gr LSWCHPs when we lived in housing packed in like sardines. :p

As long as the gun is reliable and reasonably accurate with both loads, I see no reason not to mix loads in the magazine or cylinder.
 
I have never seen or heard any good reason to mix ammo in a carry situation
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I took that as a blanket statement. I merely pointed out why someone may. So did a few others.

So, you see, you got all offended and waved the bloody baby for nothing.
Click to expand...
Oh. To me, taking the possibility of shooting a baby is not something discussed "For nothing". This seems to me to be a rather important issue, no?

most of us are not assaulting a fortified enemy bunker
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. Correct, I was talking about personal/ family protection. I would never assault a fortified enemy bunker.

of ammo for self-defense
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and so did the original poster...

M
 
This will be my last post as it is obvious we are not trying to come to any agreement.

I really do want to keep from stating the obvious as it shoud be, well, obvious, but I feel it needs to be done. I am not, nor have I ever said, that the safety of children (or any other person for that matter) is not worth discussion. Any reasonable person should know that safety is always a concern. However, nothing I stated had anything to do with the accidental death of anyone and was thrown out as a red herring. In short, while it is important, it had nothing to do with my response to the original post.

I believe the real reason you are upset is because you are doing something (mixing ammo) that you believe is a good thing and that I do not think so. Instead of debating the merit of the real question you have taken it as a personal insult. I did not mean anything in a personal manner.

Is there anything inherently wrong with mixing ammo? No, I don't think the gods on Mount Ballisticus will hurl lightning bolts at you for doing it, but there's really no real advantage to it either. You have no way of knowing beforehand what ammo you will need and it what order it will be needed. Therefore, you will never know exactly how to load to be sure you can make use, to its fullest extent, of the hodge-podge of ammo in a weapon. If it makes you feel better then, by all means, go on. There is much to be said for feeling better. But how you feel (and I include myself in this as well) often has nothing to do with the reality of a situation or set of circumstances. I have had to change my way of thinking many times to conform with what has worth and to discard what doesn't.

Again, I'm not telling you that you are wrong, insulting your acumen or manhood, or anything other than stating that there is no real advantage to mixing ammo. Take it in the spirit it is offered and use it or throw it out as you see fit.
 
I mix bullet types but not bullet weights.

It has been my experience backed up by the experience of many others as well as much anecdotal evidence that equal bullet weights pretty much have the same point of impact (out to about 25 yards anyway) when shot out of a handgun regardless of bullet type or velocity.

In my carry autos I alternately load 2 HP's and 1 FMJ. Why? Because I practice the two to COM and one to the head drill on a regular basis. Will a HP penetrate a skull from the front - sure it will. BUT for a number of reasons I will not go into (some rational some not so rational) I prefer a FMJ for that job. If in the future I have to use my carry piece it is probable that if more than 3 shots are fired I'll lose track of what's what and the load scheme won't matter much anyway. However, knowing that I'll still continue with my 2 HP, 1 FMJ load.

The only down side to this is, as many have pointed out, reliability. I've thoroughly tested all my pieces with all the different types of bullets I use to insure that they chamber reliably and am confident they will chamber reliably if ever needed. As a check though when I go to the range the first thing I do is dump the mag in my carry piece at 3 paper plates firing 3 shots at each (which requires a quick reload if my carry piece that day happens to be my Sig P220 - which blows the load scheme all to hell). This I do at least twice a month so for my personal weapons I have no doubts concerning their reliability at all.

Load schemes are a matter of personal preference. Do what feels right to you and then practice with it to make sure it actually works for you. What everyone else does is immaterial until the day you have to do it for real. On that day you'll find out if your load scheme mattered and whether or not everyone else was right, wrong or indifferent.

Here's hopin' that day never comes...
 
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