Newbie question on 9mm reloads

[LemLem44]

I’m new to reloading and picked up a lee press and all the necessary equipment. I got a bottle of Hp38 (that’s all they had for 9mm), some Hornady 115gr fmj, 124gr berry rn and 500 cci primers.
I’ve read and watched more information on reloading than I’d like to admit. The thing I can’t figure out is the COL. I understand each barrel is diff and I did the “plunk test” on my S&W mp and got a max COL of 1.197. I took off the .015 for headspace or whatever and got a COL of about 1.182. My question is everywhere I read people are loading COL significantly lower than what I have. Am I doing something wrong or do my COL numbers seem incorrect? I appreciate any and all help. Thank you

 

[troy fairweather]

If they fit your chamber then your fine,

 

[film495]

I'm also pretty new to reloading. What I can add is - look up the SAMMI specs for the max and min COL, and make sure you are within that measurement. Also, the load data you are following should list all the dimensions for that load, and it is a good guide for where to start. Additionally, whatever bullet you are loading, Hornady in this case, should list some COL for that bullet - from what I've learned different bullets all have different shapes, and the manufacturer of the bullet is the best source of info for their recommended COL for that bullet.

It looks like you are playing with adjusting COL, or customizing it, but - for starting that really isn't necessary, as long as you are inside the spec, and they plunk in and out, my understanding is you can shoot them and they will work well. People will adjust COL and shoot test loads in tiny little increments, to see how performance and accuracy is impacted, but from my understanding - this is starting to get into advanced reloading techniques and - you don't really want to start there until you know you can make reliable cartridges that cycle the action and shoot reliable and are more standard.

 

[LemLem44]

Thank you for the responses. I do have a tendency to learn basics and advanced techniques and try to apply them to whatever I am doing. I feel like applying advanced techniques I have the ability to fine tune each round and enhance my shooting experience. I want to find the best COL and powder amount I can.
That being said, on the bottle of hp38 is states 5.1gr with 115gr rn bullets. On the Hodgdon website it says starting load 4.3 max load 4.8. I plan to start loading around 10 bullets at 4.2 and 10 bullets for each increment up to 4.8. Is that a good way to see how each load performs?

 

[film495]

yeah, start on the low end and work up. I personally don't go anywhere near a max load, just don't have enough experience and there's not enough margin of error for my liking, but that's just me.

 

[reddog81]

Check to make sure they fit the magazine and will feed. 1.169 is the SAAMI max length. Nothing wrong with going a smidgen longer if it functions in your gun but you’ll run into problems with some magazines.

 

[railroader]

Check to make sure they fit the magazine and will feed. 1.169 is the SAAMI max length. Nothing wrong with going a smidgen longer if it functions in your gun but you’ll run into problems with some magazines.

This ^. I usually have my reloads around 1.125 and even shorter depending on the bullet profile. If you measure factory ammo it’s not going to be 1.169. I think the last I measured was around 1.145

 

[1KPerDay]

If they fit your chamber AND FEED FROM YOUR MAGAZINES then your fine,

fixed it for you

 

[1KPerDay]

Thank you for the responses. I do have a tendency to learn basics and advanced techniques and try to apply them to whatever I am doing. I feel like applying advanced techniques I have the ability to fine tune each round and enhance my shooting experience. I want to find the best COL and powder amount I can.
That being said, on the bottle of hp38 is states 5.1gr with 115gr rn bullets. On the Hodgdon website it says starting load 4.3 max load 4.8. I plan to start loading around 10 bullets at 4.2 and 10 bullets for each increment up to 4.8. Is that a good way to see how each load performs?

Sounds good. I’d put the OAL at around 1.15” though. Assuming they plunk and feed.

 

[1KPerDay]

Also make sure you’re doing the plunk test correctly. Plunk them in, PRESS FIRMLY on the rear of the case, see if they’ll drop out. You might also twist them when fully seated to see if they will rotate easily. I’m pretty surprised you can get them to plunk at almost 1.2”.

 

[ericuda]

Lem I think you are a little goofed up on your load. Good to plunk but it doesn't really mean that is what you should load to. I don't have my manuals right now but quick looking shows a max around 5.1 for the 115 fmj. 4.8 is maybe for lrn. I would start around 1.12 to 1.15 with 4.6 and go up.

I can look some more tomorrow for the berrys but I load 124 extreme rn at 1.135 at 4.4.

 

[Rock185]

FWIW, I've been reloading 9MM since 1967. All kinds of bullets, cases, primers, powders, etc. for a variety of firearms. Sometimes loading to what today would probably be considered +P and +P+ pressures. Some guns and magazines will allow loading to longer than the SAAMI spec OAL of 1.169". While I have experienced best reliability by loading to the longest OAL specs for a particular bullet, I have stayed within that 1.169" OAL. I know some folks loading 9MM Major, etc., load to longer than 1.169" to gain more powder capacity, etc., but I haven't attempted to load to 9MM Major velocities, so staying within that 1.169" has not been a detriment.

Prompted by a discussion on another forum, I did some measuring with one of my 9MM pistols. I discovered that with the particular round nose bullet I used, the chamber would allow an OAL of 1.247". Certainly much longer than I've ever loaded 9X19MM, and as long as some 38 Super, 9X23 Win. ammunition, etc. Different bullet profiles of course will affect allowable overall length. The 9MM magazine though, would only allow ammunition with an OAL of about 1.208". Still longer than I have loaded 9MM. Interesting, fun to experiment with,etc. But while this pistol, and perhaps others I have, would allow longer OALs, I guess I'll stick to that 1.169" or less....ymmv

 

[sparkyv]

Thank you for the responses. I do have a tendency to learn basics and advanced techniques and try to apply them to whatever I am doing. I feel like applying advanced techniques I have the ability to fine tune each round and enhance my shooting experience. I want to find the best COL and powder amount I can.
That being said, on the bottle of hp38 is states 5.1gr with 115gr rn bullets. On the Hodgdon website it says starting load 4.3 max load 4.8. I plan to start loading around 10 bullets at 4.2 and 10 bullets for each increment up to 4.8. Is that a good way to see how each load performs?

Yes, that's a good, conservative approach. HP38 is an excellent 9mm powder.


Regarding COAL, plunk as you've done and this:

Check to make sure they fit the magazine and will feed. 1.169 is the SAAMI max length. Nothing wrong with going a smidgen longer if it functions in your gun but you’ll run into problems with some magazines.

 

[bangswitch]

For all my autoloading pistols, I initially start at the C.O.L. listed in the manual, load a magazine's worth, and see how they feed. If they feed well, I stay with the listed value; If not, I will shorten in increments of 0.005 and recheck. I never load longer than the listed C.O.L. because you start running into too long for magazine issues, and I never crimp autoloader rounds, since they headspace on the mouth. If properly sized, I've never had an issue with the fit in the chamber (too tight). FWIW, I mostly use Hornady's info, and I reload 9x19mm, .40S&W, 10mmAuto and .45Auto.

 

[Strainer]

RE: your Hornady 9mm bullets: Per my Hornady 9th: 115 GR FMJ RN #35557 COL 1.100"; WIN231 4.1 GR start ; 4.7 GR max. WIN231 now = HP38; Hodgdon lists load data for both as identical on their website, which you should also reference as a resource. I have no info on the Berrys bullet. Suggest you double check all info you get on web, including this. Hornady offers downloadable load data on their bullets for modest fee. Check their website. Cheers!

 

[gifbohane]

Lem -

I load the components that you are using. In MY 9mm, 5.1 grains of HP 38 is way too much. One of my nines takes an OAL of 1.130-1.135 the other likes 1.120. Good luck in your load experiments.

 

[LemLem44]

Also make sure you’re doing the plunk test correctly. Plunk them in, PRESS FIRMLY on the rear of the case, see if they’ll drop out. You might also twist them when fully seated to see if they will rotate easily. I’m pretty surprised you can get them to plunk at almost 1.2”.

I completely agree and thats mainly the reason i posted... i watched about 10 videos and read the same amount of how to's. I dropped the bullet in, pushed it firmly, and it fell right out without resistance. I was sure i was doing something wrong because my col was so long. I made a few dummy rounds, loaded them in my mag and fed them into my Smith without issue... ugh my head hurts lol

 

[LemLem44]

Lem I think you are a little goofed up on your load. Good to plunk but it doesn't really mean that is what you should load to. I don't have my manuals right now but quick looking shows a max around 5.1 for the 115 fmj. 4.8 is maybe for lrn. I would start around 1.12 to 1.15 with 4.6 and go up.

I can look some more tomorrow for the berrys but I load 124 extreme rn at 1.135 at 4.4.

i have 2 manuals, hornady and lyman, that i reference and also went to hodgdon website for my data. As i said b4 i was confused because the bottle of hp38 said max of 5.1 for 115gr fmj but hodgdon website says 4.8max which confused me. As far as the plunk test, i was under the impressions to get the best reload you should load to your max col -.015. As a beginner i may be wrong as that being the formula and if i am please let me know. I measured a ton of factory ammo and found most, if not all, to be 1.15 but i guess my theory is to load better ammo than factory for my gun...

 

[1KPerDay]

Won’t know until you shoot a bunch of groups. If they fit and feed and function and shoot well, then go with whatever COAL you like. Another thing to consider is the longer you seat them the less bearing surface there is in the case for proper tension.

 

[LemLem44]

FWIW, I've been reloading 9MM since 1967. All kinds of bullets, cases, primers, powders, etc. for a variety of firearms. Sometimes loading to what today would probably be considered +P and +P+ pressures. Some guns and magazines will allow loading to longer than the SAAMI spec OAL of 1.169". While I have experienced best reliability by loading to the longest OAL specs for a particular bullet, I have stayed within that 1.169" OAL. I know some folks loading 9MM Major, etc., load to longer than 1.169" to gain more powder capacity, etc., but I haven't attempted to load to 9MM Major velocities, so staying within that 1.169" has not been a detriment.

Prompted by a discussion on another forum, I did some measuring with one of my 9MM pistols. I discovered that with the particular round nose bullet I used, the chamber would allow an OAL of 1.247". Certainly much longer than I've ever loaded 9X19MM, and as long as some 38 Super, 9X23 Win. ammunition, etc. Different bullet profiles of course will affect allowable overall length. The 9MM magazine though, would only allow ammunition with an OAL of about 1.208". Still longer than I have loaded 9MM. Interesting, fun to experiment with,etc. But while this pistol, and perhaps others I have, would allow longer OALs, I guess I'll stick to that 1.169" or less....ymmv

Thank you for your response as your expertise and advice is greatly appreciated. So am i wrong in thinking loading the longest COL allowed would not produce the best "firing" bullet for my gun? If thats the case, how do you find the best load for a particular gun? I am willing to try all possible loads, sizes etc but how do i go about narrowing it down? Do i need to crono every different load or is there a starting point i should be looking for before i get to the crono? Appreciate your help

 

[LemLem44]

Won’t know until you shoot a bunch of groups. If they fit and feed and function and shoot well, then go with whatever COAL you like. Another thing to consider is the longer you seat them the less bearing surface there is in the case for proper tension.

So am i correct by saying the longer the COAL the better the bullet will be is incorrect? Rather, the particular gun im shooting may just like a middle of the road COAL.. its gun specific? I was basically looking for a good starting point and everything ive read says to find your longest allowable COAL and then mess with the powder.

 

[LemLem44]

Lem -

I load the components that you are using. In MY 9mm, 5.1 grains of HP 38 is way too much. One of my nines takes an OAL of 1.130-1.135 the other likes 1.120. Good luck in your load experiments.

Thank you for the response... How much hp38 do you load? How do you get to the point where you know what your gun "likes". Did u begin somewhere and modify? if so, how did you know what to modify eg. powder, col, etc. Thanks!

 

[LemLem44]

Won’t know until you shoot a bunch of groups. If they fit and feed and function and shoot well, then go with whatever COAL you like. Another thing to consider is the longer you seat them the less bearing surface there is in the case for proper tension.

That makes sense.. i have not checked the tension of the round loaded at the max col. Im pretty sure i can just load to a factory spec'd col and they will shoot fine. im trying to make an exceptional bullet that will fit my gun better than factory. Figure if im gonna do it, im gonna do it right lol

 

[LemLem44]

yeah, start on the low end and work up. I personally don't go anywhere near a max load, just don't have enough experience and there's not enough margin of error for my liking, but that's just me.

I don't want to load to max either as i don't understand pressures and don't have a crono, yet lol, but the bottle says 5.1 for 115gr fmj and hodgdon website says 4.8max so do i stay under the 4.8 or the 5.1?

 

[LemLem44]

Yes, that's a good, conservative approach. HP38 is an excellent 9mm powder.


Regarding COAL, plunk as you've done and this:

I have loaded a few dummy rounds into my mag and dropped the slide without issue and they ejected properly. All signs lean towards a functioning bullet but as i said my numbers are so much higher than most so im slightly hesitant im doing something wrong