newbie question on oiling gun...

[CalamityJane]

Do you put any oil on the feed ramp? I've been told to do so by a knowledgable gun person, but haven't read anywhere to do that. Also have been told by another knowledgable gun person not to, that a lightly oiled patch through the barrel will catch the feed ramp enough. What say you all?

As always, thanks.
CJ

 

[EghtySx]

I don't.

 

[ChuckB]

The feed ramp should be clean and dry. No oil, please.

Chuck

 

[dfariswheel]

No oil on the ramp.
The reason is, any oil will get carried into the chamber and will coat the chamber walls.

When a cartridge fires, the brass swells to fit the chamber, and for an instant adheres to the chamber walls.

A coat of oil will prevent the case from adhering and the case will attempt to slide backward out of the chamber.

This raises chamber pressure, possibly to unsafe levels and is very hard on the gun.

Its for this reason you should also always run a patch down a bore before firing a gun. It's to dry the chamber and barrel of any oil.

 

[Merkin.Muffley]

The only gun I've oiled in this way was an old High Standard Victor my father shot in bullseye and then passed on to me. Technically, I don't believe it had a "feed ramp" - the magazine acted like a feed ramp. If I didn't oil the bullet in the top of the magazine I'd usually end up with a feeding/extraction problem. I shot it this way for years - even when I found some new magazines for it the top round still needed oil.
In my 45's I keep the ramp dry and they're polished.

 

[CalamityJane]

Thanks guys for the replies and explanations. I appreciate it.

 

[Ala Dan]

I don't, and won't-thank you very much~!

 

[usp9]

No oil on the ramp.
The reason is, any oil will get carried into the chamber and will coat the chamber walls.

When a cartridge fires, the brass swells to fit the chamber, and for an instant adheres to the chamber walls.

A coat of oil will prevent the case from adhering and the case will attempt to slide backward out of the chamber.

This raises chamber pressure, possibly to unsafe levels and is very hard on the gun.

Its for this reason you should also always run a patch down a bore before firing a gun. It's to dry the chamber and barrel of any oil.

Do you have a source for this information on chamber wall lube causing unsafe pressures? Your explanation is contrary to what a well known gun maker advises, at least for his pistols. While I do not oil the feed ramp, I do indeed put a thin coat of one of the synthetic lubes on the chamber wall, usually Miltec. My understanding is that a little lube, especially a dry lube, aides in shell extraction.

I will try to find a quote on my info and add/edit later.

 

[Chipperman]

That explanation does not make sense to me.

A case will always be pushed back against the bolt face during firing. I don't see how it will push back any harder by the chamber being oiled. The only way I see this being an issue would be with excessive head space, but that is an unsafe thing anyway.

 

[gudel]

I lube all metal, including barrel, slide, parts in frame etc. If it's metal, it's gonna get oiled. Never had a problem doing that on my Glock, Sig, HK, Beretta and S&W.

If your gun jams because you oil the feed ramp, you need to dump that jamomatic now. The tip of the bullet shouldn't be riding on that ramp in the first place. What the other guy said above previously, the mag lips guide the cartridge to go straight to the chamber without touching the ramp.

 

[usp9]

Do you have a source for this information on chamber wall lube causing unsafe pressures? Your explanation is contrary to what a well known gun maker advises, at least for his pistols. While I do not oil the feed ramp, I do indeed put a thin coat of one of the synthetic lubes on the chamber wall, usually Miltec. My understanding is that a little lube, especially a dry lube, aides in shell extraction.

I will try to find a quote on my info and add/edit later.

My memory was correct, however, this oiling recomendation pertains to a retarded blowback operation, which uses an expansion ring in the chamber wall. This is something I learned many years ago, and have always practiced with all my firearms. The purpose of the lube was to prevent the first round from "sticking" to the chamber wall.

I might add that the last thing I do after cleaning a weapon is to run a swab down the barrel with either Miltec or FP 10 on it, to put a thin coat in the barrel and chamber. If this practice is harmful in some way, I must admit I'm not aware of it, nor noticed any ill effects.

 

[harrydog]

I run a lightly oiled patch (Militec-1 or FP-10) down the bore of all my weapons after cleaning. Some if not most manufacturers recommend doing that. You just don't want it to be dripping wet with oil.

 

[dfariswheel]

Do some reading guys.

For a firearm to work safely and properly, the casing MUST adhere to the chamber walls for a brief instant.
This "adhesion principle" is caused by the tendency of metals to adhere momentarily under extreme pressure.
This seals the chamber.

If there's a layer of oil in the chamber, the casing cannot adhere for that instant due to the fluid barrier between the steel chamber and the case.
Since the case cannot seal the chamber, pressures skyrocket.

This isn't some little known or unproven idea. It's well known, and is why most any gun comes with specific instructions to clean the barrel before firing.
Most any gunsmith can explain this and it's fairly common knowledge.

The adhesion principle was discovered by James Blish, and was used in the Thompson SMG as a locking mechanism with the Thompson gun's bronze locking block operating against a steel ramp.

In the early days of the semi-auto rifle, a number of designs were offered in military trials but were turned down because they would only work if the ammo was lubricated with oil or wax.
These designs didn't have enough extraction power to extract the casing under normal circumstances, so the cases were lubricated so they would NOT adhere to the chamber.

These designs took the non-adhesion of the case into effect, and used the higher pressures to boost extraction.
These designs were all turned down because of the problems with using lubricated ammo, AND because the designs operated at such high chamber pressures from the non-adhesion of the case, that the rifles battered themselves to pieces.

Please don't take my word for this, do some technical reading and ask some good gunsmiths.
You can also ask the REAL experts: email some gun makers and cartridge makers and ask them if it's OK to have oil in the chamber.

 

[usp9]

Do some reading guys....

...This isn't some little known or unproven idea. It's well known, and is why
Please don't take my word for this, do some technical reading and ask some good gunsmiths.
You can also ask the REAL experts: email some gun makers and cartridge makers and ask them if it's OK to have oil in the chamber.

We will just have to differ on this. Thanks for a thought out, reasoned reply.
The gunmaker I refered to is Louis Seecamp, who in the lubrication section of my instruction manual ,(from 1987), says to put a thin film in the chamber. But I think I'll take your advice and ask Larry Seecamp if this Is still good practice.

 

[ColoradoKid]

Feedramp

I don't and would not recommend to anyone to do it. It would be interesting to find out who this "knowledgable gun person" was..??

 

[SwampWolf]

Well, now you know!

 

[dfariswheel]

In the case of a Seecamp pistol this is likely good advice.
The Seecamp is a specialty firearm, built to the very limits of size possibilities.

In this case, the Seecamp likely needs all the extraction help it can get, and it's very likely Seecamp has taken all this into account.

In short, this is a special case, and should NOT be taken to mean other guns, ESPECIALLY not rifles, should have the chambers lubricated.

Again, the Seecamp is a special case that's outside the norm.

 

[usp9]

Just to be sure I wasn't having a brain cramp, I dug out my H&K and Beretta manuals to see what their chamber and bore lube recomendations are. They as well as Seecamp say to apply a light oil in bore and chamber.

Obviously if you don't do this and your guns work fine, then no harm done. In some 40 years of handling firearms, I've yet to have one experience problems, so I can continue using lube in good conscience too.

Thanks for a fine discussion.

 

[dfariswheel]

Folks, most manuals tell you to put a little lube in the bore and chamber AS A PRESERVATIVE. This is to prevent rust.

You're supposed to wipe it out before shooting.

 

[harrydog]

Folks, most manuals tell you to put a little lube in the bore and chamber AS A PRESERVATIVE. This is to prevent rust.

You're supposed to wipe it out before shooting.

Well of course you're supposed to wipe it off and leave just a light coating and of course it's to prevent rust. Dripping wet is what would cause problems. Most manufacturers that I'm aware of recommend coating the bore and chamber with a light coating of oil. Like I said, running a lightly oiled patch down the bore is the easiest way to acheive this.

 

[hoghunting]

I'm with dfariswheel on this one. I shot IPSC and Hunter's Pistol matches for 6 years and if I oiled my chambers, I don't think my guns would have lasted as long as they did.

This is obviously a personal opinion and you can oil your chambers all you want, but mine will stay dry.

 

[Sport45]

I don't think chamber pressure changes at all if there is oil in the chamber (or lube left on the cartridge). The problem is that there is more force applied to the breech face if the cartridge cant "grip" the chamber walls when fired. With a high-power rifle this extra force on the bolt can really put some wear and tear on things possibly resulting in headspace issues. Most Garand shooters I know wipe the chamber with a dry patch over a GI chamber brush before each match for just this reason.

It's probably more of a concern with automatic rifles and handguns than other types.

I vote clean and dry for all chambers. And I don't know why any feed ramp would need lubrication. If oil helps, it probably needs to be polished.

This is what Ruger has to say about it in their manual for the P-series pistols. The emphasis was added by me. Since the bore and chamber are integral I'd say that Ruger also recommends a dry chamber.

3.Using powder solvent on a clean patch or bristle brush, remove powder
residue from all components of the mechanism. After cleaning, run a dry
patch through the bore, then follow with a patch that is very lightly oiled.
Wipe all surfaces clean with cloth, then wipe all surfaces with a patch or cloth
that has been very lightly oiled.
4. NOTE: Only a light application of oil is needed to provide adequate lubrication
of moving parts and to prevent rust. Excess accumulations of oil tend to
attract particles of dust and dirt and may congeal in cold weather, which can
interfere with the safe and reliable function of the pistol.
5. Before firing, remove all oil and grease from the bore.

From my Sig instruction manual. I did not add the emphasis. It was already there.

IMPORTANT
It is your responsibility to maintain your pistol.
If rust appears in the bore, the barrel should be replaced.
PRIOR TO SHOOTING MAKE SURE THE BORE IS DRY.

Check your owner's manual and follow the directions.

 

[BevrFevr]

gun oil is penetrating oil by nature

And as a pentrating oil it will screw up your ammo if it ain't laquered shut. It can affect powder and primers. If you use a modern 3 in 1 solvent, lubricant, protectant it will be active penetrating for a long time.

Oil your chamber and barrel for preservation only. Clean before firing.

I was always told since I was a child that any lubricant in the bore turned to hot gas under high pressure between the bullet and the barrel. This I was told owuld reduce accuracy, stress the firearm, and be potentialy dangerous.

Excess oil in the chamber can mean an escape route in a rearward direction for hot gas.

Let me know if I am wrong on this. This is just stuff I was told since I was taught to clean guns as a kid.