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Scott Farkus

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I really enjoy reading the various posts about people's experiences shooting a particular gun. Often, the post contains something to the effect of
"this gun is more accurate than I am". What does that mean? You didn't shoot it well but you blame yourself? Do you shoot all your other guns well but not this one? If so, how do you know it's not the gun?

Sorry if this is a stupid question but everytime I see that (and I see it a lot), I get confused.
 
It means the gun is really accurate.

For example, if someone pumps $4000 into a 10/22, custom barrel, $25/box .22LR, $1500 scope, so forth, that gun may shoot 1/8" groups at 100 yards--more than accurate enough for olympic or other competition shooters.

The thing is that 99% of the people here aren't olympic class-shooters, and even with a gun that shoots exactly where you point it every time, the shooter may only be capable of 3/4" groups. Thus, the gun capable of 1/8" groups is more accurate than the shooter.
 
Basically, it means that the gun is capable of being able to shoot more accurately than you are able to accurately shoot it.

IE: I could go buy a crazy expensive gun in which a professional target shooter could use to shoot 10 bullets through the same whole, but I could shoot the same gun at the same distance and get much crappier groups at the same distance. So, now let's say I go buy some crappy Jiminez and me and said target shooter took it out and shot some rounds and neither of us could hit the broad side of a barn with it. Well, that gun just inaccurate an shoddy, whereas the other one (the super nice one) could really demonstrate the difference between our skill levels.
 
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Sorry if this is a stupid question but everytime I see that (and I see it a lot), I get confused.
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Welcome, Scott. You asked a great question, and IMO, the answer's not quite as straightforward as what's been presented.

most guns are more accurate than most shooters
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While technically true, it seems to me many take this too far.

Ironically, you may have also noticed threads raving about a gun's accuracy (when shot offhand). How can that be? If the shooter is the limiting element, how could that same shooter discern one "accurate" gun from another while shooting unsupported? Well, Scott, clearing this up can be difficult, because, IMO, you've also touched on one of the unwritten rules of forum etiquette:

Thou shalt not brag about good groups. "This gun is soooo accurate. It was my gun, not me." :eek:

The converse also then holds:

Thou shalt not blame the gun on poor groups. "This gun is way more accurate than me". :rolleyes:
 
How would you KNOW that a gun was more accurate than your ability to shoot it?

It seems like saying that is only conjecture based on your expectations of the gun.
 
The gun's mechanical capability in terms of accuracy can be determined by shooting from a rest like the Ransom rest where most of the human factor is removed.

Once this has been done, the results are compared to accuracy with the human in charge. For most of us a humbling experience.
 
I get confused myself on some of those sayings.
"this gun is more accurate than I am".
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I always thought the gun was only as accurate as the shooter.
 
Scott Farkus said:
Often, the post contains something to the effect of "this gun is more accurate than I am". What does that mean?
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Just about every gun ever made is capable of being -more- accurate than the abilities of the person firing it.

Take any gun, bolt it firmly to a firing stand centered on some target, and fire 5 rounds.

Unbolt from the firing stand and try and reproduce the group size.

999 times out of 1000 it ain't gonna happen. At 100 yards your heartbeat can move the gun enough to add inches to your group.
 
The way you check the accuracy of a gun is to shoot it from a rest. The best is from a machine rest, like the Ransom rest. It simulates a human shooting by allowing the handgun's muzzle to rise. But when reset, it point to virtually the same point for every shot. Then you can measure the accuracy of the gun with a particular type/load of ammunition.

Most of us don't have a Ransom rest, however. We make do by resting the barrel on sand bags or the like and also supporting our arms and wrists, usually on a shooters bench.

Now, when I say a gun is more accurate than I am, then I mean I can call my shots. When I'm steady and pull the trigger correctly, the gun shoots exactly where I think I'm pointing. I can tell if I wobble or push the trigger and know where the bullet is going. That's when I say the gun is more accurate than I am.

Of course, the gun will always be inherently more accurate than the shooter. It's just a figure of speech.
 
How would you KNOW that a gun was more accurate than your ability to shoot it?
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Here's an example, my Wilson Combat M1911 is "guaranteed" to group 1.5" at 25 yards (with a certain bullet load). This is proven on ransom testing as the perforated target is included with the pistol.

While I have every reason to believe this, I will never be able to keep all of my shots grouped within 1.5" at 25 yards. Therefore, the gun is "more accurate than I am".
 
While I have every reason to believe this, I will never be able to keep all of my shots grouped within 1.5" at 25 yards. Therefore, the gun is "more accurate than I am".
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I wrote earlier that the concept of "more accurate than me" is often over interpreted: If you were able to keep your shots within a 1.5" group, your marksmanship would be perfect. The argument here is that anything less than perfect makes you less accurate than your gun. Or that if you add anything to group size, you're less accurate than your gun. There's some non sequitur here.

Your gun is inaccurate to 1.5", so you've got that much inaccuracy to play with before you can make your claim. In this case, only if you weren't able to keep your shots within 2.13" would you be not as accurate as your gun.

Finally, even if you were "only" able to shoot a 2.5" group with this gun, it means you, the marksman, were able to shoot 2". Switching to a more accurate gun, say one that shoots 1/2", would reduce your group size to just over 2". So, even if any particular gun is more accurate than you, it doesn't mean a more (or less) accurate one won't affect your shooting.
 
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