Newbie trying to get set up. Please help!

[jtcimp00]

I received a rockchucker from my dad with .30-06 dies and would like to reload this caliber, but I currently want to set myself up to reload .45 acp. I have some bass pro gift cards and then some cash set aside and I am trying to decide if I should buy the RCBS 3 die set from bass pro http://http://www.basspro.com/RCBS-3Die-Carbide-Sets/product/10202591/-198665#prodDescription

or the 4 piece Lee set
http://http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=242098
Any help would be great.
I was told that either set would fit the rockchucker press.
It seems the Lee set comes with a factory crimp die that supposedly makes sure that the case is sized correctly. This seems to be a good thing, but is it necessary?

 

[rcmodel]

No, the Lee FCD is not necessary.

A standard 3-die set performs the following steps.
1. Size.
2. Expand & Bell.
3. Seat & crimp.

If adjusted properly, a standard 3-die set will load perfect ammo.

If you need to squeeze it with a Lee FCD after it is loaded to make it right, you did something wrong with the first three dies.

rc

 

[cfullgraf]

Lee dies are fine except their lock rings do not clamp to the die to preserve the die setting. So, I no longer buy Lee dies for that reason. I must buy something else to make Lee dies work for me and therefore much of the cost benefit is lost.

RCBS dies come with the clamping lock ring as do the other major manufacturers. But any if the major die manufacturers make fine dies.

Now a days, almost all dies are 7/8-14 threads and fit almost every press. 50BMG and the Dillon SDB, their small pistol progressive press are the only exceptions I can think of at the moment. So, yes, Lee or RCBS dies will work with the Rockchucker.

 

[jtcimp00]

So even for a beginner basically, the FCD won't give a great advantage as long as I follow directions and take my time? I like the thought of not having to buy locking rings separately if I buy the RCBS. That will also leave room for more flexibility in buying primers and powder, as bass pro is HIGH!!!!!!!!

 

[cfullgraf]

You can usually do better on price by mail order than at Brass Pro Shops. Primers and powder are an exception due to hazmat fee added to the shipping charges. Buy powder and primers locally until you start to buy several hundred dollars worth at a time. For pistol, a thousand primers and a pound of powder will last a long time.

A taper crimp is all that is needed for 45ACP. Most, if not all 45ACP dies made today have a taper crimp in the seating die. In 30 years of loading I have never encountered a need for a die like the Lee FCD.

You could get the Lee 3 die carbide set and a 3 clamping lock rings for similar or less than Lee 4 die set.

As you expand your reloading capabilities try different dies from different manufacturers. Each manufacturer has some little features that differ from the others. You may find a feature that you really like and will stick with that brand from that point on.

 

[Skip_a_roo]

No, the Lee FCD is not necessary.

A standard 3-die set performs the following steps.
1. Size.
2. Expand & Bell.
3. Seat & crimp.

If adjusted properly, a standard 3-die set will load perfect ammo.

If you need to squeeze it with a Lee FCD after it is loaded to make it right, you did something wrong with the first three dies.

rc

I know going against what someone that has 23,000 post looks like but hey, I guess I just ain't too smart!

At any rate, the Lee Factory Crimp die has it's place. There are chambers that are at both ends of the specifications for the caliber. If you happen to have a tight one, the LFCD can really help. Case in point: My M625JM. It has some tight throats in it and there may be a time when I try to use an unsized cast bullet in it. Many, many folks use unsized cast bullets in their firearms. The LFCD will "size" your bullets after they are loaded, so to speak. So, you may not have done something wrong, just different and the LFCD can help.

If you NEED one then yes, I agree with the previous statements. If you know why you may use one when needed, it is a useful tool.


FWIW

 

[rcmodel]

The LFCD will "size" your bullets after they are loaded, so to speak.

Yes they will, and that's the whole problem with them.

As for shooting un-sized bullets that won't fit in a S&W revolver chamber, so you squish them till they will fit?
Too each his own I guess.

rc

 

[TX expat]

I'll preface everything I say with the fact that I'm pretty new to reloading and only have a round count that is still in the hundreds...

The Lee lock rings are different than the RCBS ones, but they will stay locked in position, you just have to be careful. They have an O-ring that will keep the lock ring in place but it isn't as absolutely locked down like a ring with an actual screw that locks the ring down. I use Lee dies for .38 and .223 and so far I've never needed to re-adjust any of the positions, but I am careful when placing and removing the die. And, yes, I do always double check the bullet length when I get started, but I do that with my screwed down RCBS dies too, since you can't be too careful!

As far as the FC die, I really like it on my .223 but I can't say anything about how it does on .45 because I haven't started reloading .45 yet. The 4 die Lee set should still be less expensive than the RCBS 3 die set, so you could try it with and without the extra step of the factory crimp and see what works best for you.

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

For pistol die sets, I prefer Hornady for the seating die and the lock rings. For taper crimped cartridges, a separate crimp die may be easier to set up, but is not necessary. Any standard taper crimp die will work great, but I'm not a fan of Lee Carbide Factory Crimp dies, for the same reasons already mentioned.

Andy

 

[GLOOB]

I'd personally go ahead and buy the 4 die set, even though I don't use the FCD. One day, you might step up to a 4+ hole turret press or a progressive press. Then the extra step for the FCD won't be a big deal and may be worth it. On a single stage press, just seat/crimp with the seating die and do a chamber check for your competition/defense ammo. Dropping a bullet into a barrel is a lot faster than running it through the press.

 

[orrwdd]

I'll add my take. Get a standard RCBS, Lyman, Hornady, Redding or Lee 3 die Carbide set and when you are ready add a Taper Crimp Die, about $15.00. Seat the bullet in one step and then finish the round with the Taper Crimp set to just remove the bell from the case as long as it is under .472".

At first you can use the combination Seat/Crimp die for simplicity and if done correctly will give you acceptable reloads. But eventually you will want to move to the separate seat/crimp steps.

Bill

 

[Skip_a_roo]

Yes they will, and that's the whole problem with them.

As for shooting un-sized bullets that won't fit in a S&W revolver chamber, so you squish them till they will fit?
Too each his own I guess.

rc

I should qualify my statement. I don't use them for this purpose anymore, but I did. I know someone that has reworked theirs so that the "resizing" portion doesn't work but the crimping section does. The only purpose I can see for the LFCD is if your 45 caliber mould is .454" and your 45ACP revolver chokes on them, so to speak.

What I do like about them is that you can use them wrong. Hear me out. I like to seat and crimp in two steps. Since I load on four different machines that will allow that, I use that advantage. The Square Deal B has it's own die set but it seats and crimps in two steps.

The Lee Classic Turret press in 4 hole allows me the same thing, seating and crimping in two steps. The Dillon XL650 has enough holes in it to gag a maggot on a gut wagon and I use them all to process bullets.

To get the two step seating and crimping, you need that 4th die. Either another standard seat/crimp one or the LFCD. What I have done is this, and I use this every time I reload now, use the LFCD to seat my bullet and the standard die to apply the crimp. By screwing the seating plug all the way into the LFCD and using the body threads for depth adjustment, it keeps that pesky "resizing" function from happening while seating the bullet. In the next station, I use the standard seat/crimp die in the opposite fashion. Seating plug screwed all the way out, don't want to lose the components from the inside of the die, so that it never hits the previously seated bullet, and adjust the outside of the die for the proper crimp.

Works for me and you have to do this or order a standard seating/crimp die separately. Since they don't sell single dies at the local shop, I chose to do things this way. Now, for some of my auto rounds, I simply have a taper crimp die in the 5th hole of the XL650.

And, rc, you are quite right, to each his own. If everyone did things exactly as you or I, while we both feel they would be doing things exactly right, it would be a pretty boring world, dear friend!

 

[rfwobbly]

I'll preface everything I say with the fact that I'm pretty new to reloading and only have a round count that is still in the hundreds...

The Lee lock rings are different than the RCBS ones, but they will stay locked in position, you just have to be careful. They have an O-ring that will keep the lock ring in place but it isn't as absolutely locked down like a ring with an actual screw that locks the ring down.

TX_xpat -
Friend, if you ever tried a set of good quality lock rings, such as those that Hornady makes, you'd be deleting that post faster than yo mama could slap you.

That's not simply my opinion. Click Here

 

[Skip_a_roo]

The difference is in much more than quality. Lock rings that attach to the die and not squeeze a rubber ring onto the press, retain the setting of the die whereas the others don't.

On the set screw lock rings when they are properly tightened onto the die, they can be used as an initial setup for your next go 'round. Simply screw the die back into the press until the lock ring stops. It is already fastened to the die at the position that you last used it so.....

That being said, it is a simple thing to get a drill and tap and make the Lee ones the same. Ace is the place with the helpful hardware man!

 

[TX expat]

TX_xpat -
Friend, if you ever tried a set of good quality lock rings, such as those that Hornady makes, you'd be deleting that post faster than yo mama could slap you.

That's not simply my opinion. Click Here

I've never used the Hornady lock rings and I did make it clear that my experience in reloading is just above none at all. I do have some RCBS dies with the locking ring though, so I do use something other than the Lee O-ring.

It wasn't my intention to say that there aren't better options than the Lee rings; I'd freely admit that I have very limited experience, however I've moved both sets of my Lee dies in and out of the press a number of times and I haven't had to readjust or re-setup any of my dies. I can easily see the advantage to something that screws down, especially if you do a lot of moving dies and I can guarantee you that if my Lee dies ever do start moving around and I have to set them up each time, I'd change those rings in a heartbeat.

I will be sure to never take their position for granted given the opinions on this and your linked thread, so thank you for that!

 

[71Commander]

I got rid of my RCBS and Dillon dies and use nothing but Lee 4 piece dies in every handgun caliber I load for.

The FCD is like a chamber check.

I love seating and crimping in a different stage. I can change bullet profiles and not have to undo the lock rings. The Lee seating die is like an inexpensive version of a competition seating die. Just turn the micrometer knob on top.

 

[rfwobbly]

I will be sure to never take their position for granted given the opinions on this and your linked thread, so thank you for that!

Yes, exactly, my friend. In hindsight maybe I should have simply changed this one word...
"The Lee lock rings are different than the RCBS ones, but they SEEM TO stay locked in position..."

The difference caused by very small powder and OAL variations is the part of reloading that's "art". That is, they're allowable because their effect cannot always be measured.

However, the same is not true for die positions. If the die moves, then meaningful and measurable cartridge dimensions change. The difference caused by die location is the part of reloading that's "science". When cartridge dimensions change the round may no longer fit the gun's chamber.

In real life Murphy's Law predicts the reloader won't find out his ammo won't chamber or fire until he's in the starter's box and the RO says, "Load and make ready." So it behooves the reloader to 1) make double darn sure that cartridge dimensions are correct, and then 2) do everything possible to keep them from changing thereafter. This is especially true of the OPs single-stage press where dies must be run in and run out for every process step.

The reason I'm admittedly so adamant (some might say 'anal') about this subject is that there's nothing more embarrassing than standing in the starter's box with 20 other shooters looking on and having your gun jam due to cartridge dimensions. That's when you'll truly understand the meaningful difference between "absolutely locked in position" and "seems to be locked in position". If I can save someone from that frustration, then my time here is well spent.

All the best.

 

[jcwit]

Quote:
The LFCD will "size" your bullets after they are loaded, so to speak.

Yes they will, and that's the whole problem with them.

As for shooting un-sized bullets that won't fit in a S&W revolver chamber, so you squish them till they will fit?
Too each his own I guess.

rc

Thank you for that post, you made my morning.

jcwit

 

[GaryL]

Lee dies are fine, and I have several sets, but I don't care for the Lee rubber o-ring nut one bit. It works ok as long as you can put the dies into a tool head and not mess with them.

 

[LiveLife]

As to Factory Crimp Die, if you are new to reloading, I would recommend you learn to reload without it first.

Reloading is about adjusting several variables until we get the combination we are happy with for properly loaded round dimensions, reliable feeding/chambering from magazine, reliable extraction/slide function and shot group accuracy. Since FCD "erases" variable such as amount of taper crimp applied to the case neck, if you are doing something wrong, you won't know.

I think FCD does have its applications, but should be used only after rounds are properly loaded with 3 dies first. If you haven't bought your dies, price difference between the two die sets is only about $10 (FCD is $15) to consider just buying the 4 die set.

BTW, MidwayUSA has the 3 and 4 carbide die sets on sale for $23.39 and $34.99.

 

[RustyFN]

I should qualify my statement. I don't use them for this purpose anymore, but I did. I know someone that has reworked theirs so that the "resizing" portion doesn't work but the crimping section does. The only purpose I can see for the LFCD is if your 45 caliber mould is .454" and your 45ACP revolver chokes on them, so to speak.

I thought that was what a lube/sizer was for. At least I prefer to size my cast bullets with a lube/sizer rather than a FCD. I do use a FCD for each caliber I load but I load on a four station turret press. If I was loading on a single stage press I would use a three die set and seat and crimp in the same die. Use the right size bullets and set the other three dies up right and the FCD won't squish anything.

 

[jtcimp00]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate all the input. Now if I could find a good supplier of primers and cast bullets in Northeast Georgia I'd be set.