Newest Toy - Military 3rd Model Dragoon

[Fingers McGee]

I recently purchased a Military Model 3rd Model Dragoon w/shoulder stock off of GunBroker. It hit the doorstep today. The pistol was made by Armi San Marco in 1977. At first glance, it looks to be in very good condition. Metal was dry as a bone. A little surface rust in the cyl notches, around the nipples and on the barrel; but nothing that a little RB-17 and 0000 steel wool won't fix. Bore is dirty; but in excellent shape, Nipples are in good shape, no mushrooming and only the faintest hint of nipple mark on the hammer face. All in all - damn fine shaper for a pistol that's 32 years old and probably hasnt seen any oil in a decade.

First thing I did was cycle the action. Boy, was that a dissapointment. Action was terrible, and hammer hung up when the trigger was pulled. So, I proceeded to break it down. When I pulled the barrel off, the cylinder fell off, Bolt doesn't hold very well. In looking at it, it looks like it's a little too short coming through the window.

Found out why the action was so bad, hammer spring screw was only screwed in about half way. Only thing that kept it in cocntact with the hammer was the grips. After tightening the hammer spring screw, I put the grips & backstrap back on. Thats when I found out why the screw was loose. The hammer spring musta come from an overload spring on a 1 ton or 2 ton truck. It was all I could do to cock it one handed. That'll need some lightening.

The shoulder stock furniture is brass - It just has a lot of patina. I'm not sure if this is the stock that ASM sold with them in the 70s. The brass around the hammer slot & the underside is too clean, so it may be an Army/Navy stock that was machined to fit.

I havent striped it down totally - yet. That will come after I run a few cylinders full through it - with and without the shoulder stock. I plan is to take it out tomorrow sometime and seeing what it will do. Will save the tune-up for after the first shooting session.

Here are the first pictures of it



Front leaf on sight flipped up:



With stock attached:

 

[NobleSniper]

Nice find.....congrats

 

[madcratebuilder]

Excellent. Nice looking wood on the shoulder stock. I have been watching for one, some day maybe I well get lucky.

 

[AussieTH]

Yeah Fingers - I definitely live in the wrong country. Know of any more of these about the traps?

Now to 'delicate' business!!!!

1. How much for that rear sight?

2. I greatly look forward to your range comparison of with and without the stock - or anything else you find out about the stock.

Thanks

Tony

 

[Voodoochile]

Very nice, I'm jelouse

 

[Fingers McGee]

Thanks Noble Sniper


MCB - Keep checking Gunbroker & Auction Arms. This was the third or fourth one that's poped up in the last year.

Sorry Aussie, you can't afford the sight Just keep your eyes peeled on the auction sites.

Voodoo - ya know what they say - every dog has his day.

Plan is to hiut the range in the am. Should have some results tomorrow night.

 

[AussieTH]

...... Rushes off into a corner and sulks!!!!! ........

Now Fingers - do not be hard to get on with!!! I NEED that rear sight a lot more than you do!

Reconsider please. :banghead:

 

[Smokin_Gun]

Congrads Fingers...that's one fine speciman you got there...gotta love the stock and sights...good find.

 

[Voodoochile]

I'll definitly want to see what you can do with it down range, say 100 yards..

 

[Olmontanaboy]

Great outfit, nice photos too!

 

[Fingers McGee]

Well, I took it out to the range this morning to see what it would do. Took a couple cardboard silhouettes, some bullseye targets and orange spotters to shoot at. Powder was fffg Scheutzen; Hornady .454 swaged roundballs; .44/45 cal Wonder Wads; Remington #10 and #11 caps as well as a tin of RWS 1075s.

To say I was disappointed is an understatement .

Set the target at 25 yards, (might have been a mistake) all firing was done off-hand. Bullseye target stapled to the silhouette with the orange spotter about centered on the silhouette's 10 ring (top half of the target).

Broke the pistol down & lubed the arbor with bore butter, poped a cap on each chamber.

First loading was25 gr of powder, wads & ball in all six chambers. Cocked the pistol, Sighted on the spotter and squeezed the trigger. There was a slight click; but the hammer didn't go forward. Squeezed a little harder & it fired. I couldnt see any hole, so I aimed again and fired the other five rounds. Marched down to the target & found it was clean. Nothing had hit it. Now, when I sighted the pistol, or at least tried to, the leaf sight on the barrel hid the front sight when I tried to use the sight notch in the hammer. So what I did was use the center fixed blade on the barrel sight as the rear sight. I figured it would be high - and it sure was.

2nd Loading was 30 gr of powder, wads & balls. Since I believed that all the first loading rounds went over the target, I lowered my point of aim to the bottom of the silhouette. Fired all six rounds, using the rear sight on the barrel with the front sight as before, and when the smoke cleared, there were two holes in the top of the head of the silhouette, about 2 ft above my POA. using the front and rear barrel sights obviously wasnt going to work.

3rd loading was same as the first; but this time I decided to use the hammer and the fixed center sight on the leaf sight as my fron and rear sights. The notch is barely visible to my tired old eyes (hopefully my new glasses will make it easier to see); but i tried to keep the orange spotter in the two notches. This worked much better. I put all six shots on the silhouette about 3" above the estimated POA; but they were all about 6-8" to the left. Probably the fault of the crappy trigger.

4th loading and results were about the same as the 3rd.

5th loading was the same 30 gr, wad & ball; but I attached the shoulderstock to see if I could get some kind of group; but the trigger and tiny nitches prevented that. I still hit the silhouette; but nothing I'd show anyone.

A couple things were prevalent through all the shooting.

1. #10 Remington caps fit the nipples snugly, fired first hit, and either stayed on the nipple or fell off after the revolver was cocked for the next shot. None fell off into the action or jammed the cylinder up.

2. The revolver was a B&%$#@ to cock :banghead:. The hammer spring - as stated in the OP - musta come of a 1 ton or 2 1/2 ton truck. The advancing of the cylinder when cocking wasn't smooth. It was almost like a 2 stage pull, and the hammer had to go way too far back to line the chamber with the barrel.

3. The cylinder didn't always lock up tight when cocking. I had to jiggle it by hand to get it to lock up sometimes .

4. The wedge does not go all the way through the barrel lug - in fact, it just barely goes flush with the right side. If I try to tap in further, the cylinder drags.

Got home and stripped the gun down. & Here is what I found.

The internals had all been monkeyed with at some point.

The hammer/bolt spring was barely touching the hammer & bolt with the screw tightened all the way down :banghead:. Partially explains the occasional failure to lock up.

It appeared as if the bolt had been filed/ground down at some point - It was flat on the top, had no curve, and was bare metal - further explains the occasional failures to lock up.

The trigger also showed signs of fiddling with.

The sear notch in the hammer isnt flat. It has a small ridge on it that explains the click before the actual let off .

The hand looks like it was made by a drop out from a highschool machine shop class. Rough, chunky, and too short. With the cylinder removed, I checked the action of the hand in the frame. I had to pull the hammer almost to half cock before the nose of the hand came to the window in the frame to engage the ratchet. Explains why I had to pull the hammer way back to advance the cylinder to lock up.

Also found numerous burs and rough spots in the hand channel of the frame.

Have smoothed out all the rough spots in the frame and orderd a new hand, bolt, trigger/bolt spring, and hammer spring from VTI. Hopefully they'll be in in the next few days so I can try to at least get this thing timed right. The aiming part, I'm not sure of what to do . Putting a taller front blade on it would seem to be the way to go.

More Later

 

[AussieTH]

Tut Tut Fingers - I told you that you did not need that rear sight

Did you try it with the stock?

T.

 

[Fingers McGee]

The fifth cylinder was fired with the stock. Because of the trigger pull and the sights, it was no better than the previous cylinders.

When I get the action tuned up; I'll give it more of a work out. Will try to ring steel at 100yds with the stock.

 

[messerist]

Forgive me if my post sounds foolish. You mentioned that the internals were monkeyed with. Is it possible that the front sight was messed with by the previous simian owner? I am not familiar with the Dragoons and do not know if the front sight is replaceable but if it is could you try that? I hope you get that wheel gun shooting to your expectations, she sure looks purty(can I call a gun purty?)