NFA Rights of Servicemen

[Matt304]

This is just a few questions I have covering the NFA rights of individuals providing service to our country.

Are all police officers guaranteed the right to possess NFA weapons?

Is there a tax stamp which is still required for them to personally own an NFA weapon they choose to buy?

After their duty is up, are they still allowed the same rights to NFA weapons?

Now, what about those serving our country in the Armed Forces? Army, marines, navy, air-force etc -- what are their NFA rights as compared to an officer of the law?

 

[Trebor]

As an officer in a governmental police force an individual can possess and use full auto weapons that are owned by, and registered to, their department.

If they wish to own any personal full-auto weapons, they must follow all Federal and state rules, NFA paperwork and taxes, etc, like any other citizen.

That is as it should be. Why should they have special priveleges off the job?

As to soldiers, they can use their issued weapons in the service of their country. As far as personally owned weapons, they must also follow the law, both when they are in the service and after they are discharge/retired.

Also, that is as it should be. Why should they be any different.

 

[Sistema1927]

Why should they be any different.

Well, in a different way than you intended, military members are different. Since they are subject to the "Uniform Code of Military Justice" (UCMJ) they forfeit certain rights. If a commander wants to order that they not carry personally owned weapons off-duty they have to obey. They also have limits on their right to free speech, and may be prohibited from going places that are OK for civilians.

 

[Trebor]

Well, in a different way than you intended, military members are different. Since they are subject to the "Uniform Code of Military Justice" (UCMJ) they forfeit certain rights. If a commander wants to order that they not carry personally owned weapons off-duty they have to obey. They also have limits on their right to free speech, and may be prohibited from going places that are OK for civilians.

True, but the UCMJ is kind of outside the scope of what the poster was asking about.

Although, come to think of it, I suppose their chain of command could also prohibit them from owning a personally owned full-auto under the UCMJ (maybe?)

At the very least, they don't gain any *additional* rights to possess privately owned full-auto weapons over civilians.

 

[wideym]

NFA weapons personally owned by military servicemembers are very rare. Most simply cannot afford NFA weapons on a service members pay. Other reasons are that every post I was assigned to had a policy letter stating that the Commanding General and Provost Marshal would not sign any CLEO letters and the Privately Owned Weapon range would not allow full auto weapons. Also if your weapons are stored in your units arms room you must have them registered on post with the Provost Marshals Office and can only draw them with written permission from your Company Commander, XO, or 1SGT. You must also cordinate with the unit armorer to draw it, expecially on a weekend. Some armorers are jerks who won't let you draw on a weekend unless there is something in it for them.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The CLEO signature can be avoided by simply creating a LLC or Living Trust, with the Living Trust being the easiest.

To avoid dealing with bases that make storage difficult, you can store NFA weapons with friends/relatives or place them in a storage facility. You need never take them to a base.

While transferrable machineguns are very expensive, other NFA toys can be found at reasonable prices or simply pay the $200 tax and make it yourself.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

you can store NFA weapons with friends/relatives

That is ok? I was wondering if for whatever reason the friend/relatives collection was inspected there would be a serious problem if a NFA item was found, because even if a copy of the Form 4 was with it, it wouldn't have their name on it and would be out of the owner's control.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Yep. 100% a-okay per ATF. You must lock the items in a container that the property owner cannot open. They then do not have access to it. You then inform ATF in writing of the address you are storing the items and it is recommended you leave the property owner a copy of your Form 1 or 4(s).

 

[Crunker1337]

As far as the NFA goes, first-class citizens have no special privileges.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

Why should they be any different.

It's the military......You know I kinda think they SHOULD be armed with FA's but what do I know

As for LEO's normally they follow the rules unless 1 of 2 things 1 the Dept owns it or 2 they chief illegally passes them out like water.

As for Elitism try this, my fathers friend when he was a LEO wanted a SBS for an entry weapon Dept said unless THEY owned it, he could not, state law.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

It's the military......You know I kinda think they SHOULD be armed with FA's but what do I know

It's the military....if they want you to have it, they will ISSUE it to you.

Besides, you gonna pay $20,000 just to own a 20+ year old M16 the government won't let you deploy with?

 

[Gunnerpalace]

No, the gist I was getting was if we cant own FA's neither should the army which is out of line.

 

[striker3]

You must also cordinate with the unit armorer to draw it, expecially on a weekend. Some armorers are jerks who won't let you draw on a weekend unless there is something in it for them.

So not wanting to come to work on THEIR weekend liberty for something not work related makes them a jerk? If I was asking someone to come and open up an armory just so I could do some personal shooting, I would be sure to have something cold and wet for them in thanks. It is not their fault that the regulations are assinine.

 

[wideym]

They are jerks for having to be forced to do their job. As a unit armorer I knew the advantages and disadvantages of the job. If coming in on a weekend for an hour was so off putting, I would have never taken the position. Yet others acted like a civilian DMV employee who was only paid from 9 to 5 and not required to show after hours.

 

[amprecon]

Geeze, here we go again.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The NFA is an illegitimate and unconstitutional law.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The NFA is an illegitimate and unconstitutional law.

Yep, but for the time being, it is the law. They put you in the same jail for violating unconstitutional laws as they do for the constitutional ones.

If you are feeling froggy, violate it and become the test case that gets SCOTUS to strike it down.

 

[Trebor]

No, the gist I was getting was if we cant own FA's neither should the army which is out of line

No, you misread my statement. I meant that individual police officers and soldiers, as private citizens, should have to obey the same laws as the rest of us.

A cop or soldier can be issued a full-auto, and that's fine. If he wants to own one as a private citizen, he needs to follow the same laws and rules as the rest of us though.

 

[amprecon]

Oath, you have to take an oath before certain laws don't apply to you anymore, it's all about the oath man.

 

[EricTheBarbarian]

Actually, to be honest, it is a bigger inconvenience to have personally owned weapons while serving your country than it ever is for civilians. Sure you get issued a weapon that you qualify with twice a year and deploy with, but you cant just check it out and go to the range on the weekend. No firearms can be kept on post without being registered. It has to be kept in the arms room, depending, but the company commander has to sign off on you checking it out, and as a previous poster stated, the armorer has to be there.

Ammunition and firearms cannot be kept in the same place either. The only way without it being a big hassle is to live off post.

However, if you move to a new duty station, and havent gotten housing yet then what do you do with them? Random searches at the gate, so you cant just keep a pile of guns in your trunk without asking for trouble.

Dont get the idea for a minute that it is easier to own full auto weapons, or any weapons for that matter while on active duty. To avoid all of the hassle and possible trouble, depending which private security contractor is working the gate, I chose to leave all of my guns with my parents back at home.

Its really more hassle than I was willing to deal with let alone my own objection to any of my firearms being registered. So Im down to shooting my personally owned guns only when Im home on leave.

 

[tsidorus]

ok, the only thing that has kept me out of NFA ITems is the fact I cant guarantee I will not be moved to a state in which they are not legal. Ie back to Hawaii or to New York. If that were to happen I would either be forced to sell or work out some complicated transfer to a safe deposit box in a legal state (after the approval of ATF, minus suppressors I believe you just have to tell them on that one not request permission)

Im still pondering a suppressor for my 22lr but I would never get a SBR or full auto. I play with one at work. It really isnt that cool.

-Tsi

I still think NFA should go away for what its worth. Or at least open the registry so that m16 that costs the army 450 bucks doesn't sell for 10k.

 

[zoom6zoom]

Or at least open the registry so that m16 that costs the army 450 bucks doesn't sell for 10k.

Maybe we need to spread the word through the media and such that hey, we're TRYING to give the government tax money, and they won't take it!