Nice picture you may find amusing.
- Thread starter CSballer89
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Al Thompson
Moderator Emeritus
One of Oleg Volk's excellent pictures....
MachIVshooter
Member
I like Oleg's posters, but............
In that instance, I'd be piling back into the car and hauling @$$ out of there. The out of focus criminal has the drop on our fellow. Not good odds either way, but at least being in the car puts some barriers between you and your assailant. And bullets have a really hard time getting through cars; Many a magazine has been emptied at fleeing suspect vehicles by police without scoring a single hit to the driver.
In that instance, I'd be piling back into the car and hauling @$$ out of there. The out of focus criminal has the drop on our fellow. Not good odds either way, but at least being in the car puts some barriers between you and your assailant. And bullets have a really hard time getting through cars; Many a magazine has been emptied at fleeing suspect vehicles by police without scoring a single hit to the driver.
MostlySurly
Member
Yes, tactically questionable. I'd rather be in the car when the bg has that drop on me.
But that usually - and correct me if I'm wrong, Oleg - isn't the intent of his messages.
I Love 'Em!
But that usually - and correct me if I'm wrong, Oleg - isn't the intent of his messages.
I Love 'Em!
dirtykid
Member
Now why cant we get those put up on billboards like the anti-abortion people do ? Is it a lack of funds ? If our ideals (RKBA) were strewn ALL over the countryside would it cause people to reflect and ponder if THEY should support pro-gun bills or do you think it would have the same effect as the anti-bortion billboards do on me (basically im sick of looking at em) and cause people to isolate us as "gun-nuts" ?? jus wonderin,,
Silas
Member
Perhaps he is piling into the car, but has his hand on his weapon as he's getting in to be ready, just in case. At least that's one way to look at it.
Silas
Silas
dorfer21
Member
Just my PERSONAL .02 but...,
How many people do you know get into a car looking toward the rear of the car, paying no attention to the door jamb?
If that guys is getting in, it's gonna hurt.
MachIVshooter
Member
This is also true. The "one hit stop" ratio for being run over by a motor vehicle is quite high.
The guy in the car is really behind the curve. The BG already has his gun out an pointed at the GG. Too late to try to run or drive away. He needs to draw and duck inside the car to use it as much as possible for cover and shoot ASAP!
Mainsail
Member
I think his electric car ran out of juice, so he has to fight.
MtnCreek
Member
Great Poster!
Now we have discovered true 'knock down power'!
CSballer89
Member
I wonder what grain that sedan is? ; ]
ForumSurfer
Member
That is why it appears the guy is getting out to me. I always do a 360 as I get out. Exit looking ahead, pivoting around 180 degrees to shut the door and then looking back to the front. I've always done that for some reason. If the guy is getting out, it would take 3-7 seconds to get in the car, start it, put it in gear and leave...plenty of time for the BG to empty his weapon. I think I'd rather draw as I know that is going to take no more than 2 or 3 seconds. With either option you are hoping that the BG misses his target or doesn't fire, and drawing then sending lead down range takes half the time of getting back in and leaving.
leadcounsel
member
Tactically, you want to never be on the X (Plan A). If you are on the X, you need to get off the X as quickly as possible. Sometimes that means just moving. Other times, as in an ambush or when someone has the 'drop on you,' you need to fight.
We can't see what's going on with the rest of this vehicle, or know the context, but if his car keys are buried in his pocket and the car is off, getting IN the car would be a foot in the grave. He'd be a sitting duck. If the car is parked facing a wall, he has nowhere to go but reverse. That's a difficult maneuver with a high risk of failure, accident, etc.
Given the BEST case scenario (car running, facing open road), it may be better to get in the car and floor it. Otherwise, it may be best to take move to put the car between the criminal and the victim and execute Plan B.
We can't see what's going on with the rest of this vehicle, or know the context, but if his car keys are buried in his pocket and the car is off, getting IN the car would be a foot in the grave. He'd be a sitting duck. If the car is parked facing a wall, he has nowhere to go but reverse. That's a difficult maneuver with a high risk of failure, accident, etc.
Given the BEST case scenario (car running, facing open road), it may be better to get in the car and floor it. Otherwise, it may be best to take move to put the car between the criminal and the victim and execute Plan B.
Frozen North
Member
Never draw on a drawn gun....
MikeNice
Member
Sorry, I don't agree. Some times the choice is draw and try to live or don't draw and accept death. You never know the other guys plans.
Then again I was the idiot that drew down on a guy with a knife at less than ten feet. The point of having a gun is to use it when it is needed. Not every situation comes with stage directions or an invite.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
You are right. We can't know the rest of the context. We have to go on what is in the image. All we know is that there is a guy, presumably a mugger by the description, standing a considerable distance from the intended victim in what looks to be a driveway. Why would he stand there? It is hard to mug a person from that far away. To call it a mugging is just a bit bizarre, especially to believe that the guy is getting out of his car to be mugged by a person that far away. It is a very dramatic looking image, but it doesn't look like any sort of normal mugging image.
Yep and it looks like more than 270 degrees of his most viable travel directions on foot are blocked by the car and the car door and the other sub 90 degrees are covered by a guy pointing a gun at him. Looks like moving off the X will mean closing, at least some distance, on the bad guy or remaining trapped on the X. He could duck back into the car, but then he is on another X inside a box.
People do it successfully all the time. It doesn't make logical sense, but it seems to work quite often. Part of the reason it works is because the bad guy has no intention of shooting, doesn't have a loaded gun, doesn't know how to work his gun, has a broken gun, has a fake gun, doesn't want to draw attention to the situation by shooting, and/or has performance anxiety.
If you think you are about to be killed despite all your previous blunders of putting you in the situation seen in the image, then what do you have to lose by fighting back?
ForumSurfer
Member
If I am going to draw, it is my last course of option other than dieing. So if the gun is already drawn, should I hide in the floorboard and hope for the best?
MachIVshooter
Member
I'd say it depends on the circumstances. If you believe the other person intends to kill you, then you should do whatever is necessary for survival, including drawing and moving. However, if it is a mugging or somesuch, where simply giving up your material goods will probably deescalate the situation, then it would not be adviseable to draw on a drawn gun, as the situation will go from potentially deadly to most likely deadly.
I don't believe in giving in to the criminals, but if one has the drop on me and all he wants is my wallet, watch, etc., I'll give it up. The most I'm ever likely to have on me in cash is about $1,500, usually much less. I don't wanna be shot over such a pittance, and the cost of time off work and an attorney if I shoot the mugger will certainly exceed what I'd have lost in the robbery.
MikeNice
Member
From Marko Kloos (his essays are some of my favorite writing.)
I selected some parts that fit here. I encourage people to read the whole essay at Marko's blog.
Give Them Nothing
I selected some parts that fit here. I encourage people to read the whole essay at Marko's blog.
Give Them Nothing
Gord
Member
Frozen North
Member
If I am looking down the barrel of a mugger's gun, he is gonna get my billfold. I am not gonna pull a gun on a guy who already has a bead on me.
No the choice is to give up your dough and have a chance to live, or draw and get shot in the chest before you even clear the holster. If a mugger gets the drop on you, he has already won. You can accept that fact or hope... his gun is unloaded or he is willing to stand there and let you shoot him.
A knife is not a gun. 10 ft is scary close, but a bullet fired from a drawn gun can close it before you can sweep away your shirt to draw.
No, you toss your wallet and hope like hell you get an opportunity to get your gun out before he shoots you!
If I am doing old west quick draw, I sure as heck ain't gonna try it with a Glock in an IWB holster! There is nothing macho about being shot dead by a street thug.
No the choice is to give up your dough and have a chance to live, or draw and get shot in the chest before you even clear the holster. If a mugger gets the drop on you, he has already won. You can accept that fact or hope... his gun is unloaded or he is willing to stand there and let you shoot him.
A knife is not a gun. 10 ft is scary close, but a bullet fired from a drawn gun can close it before you can sweep away your shirt to draw.
No, you toss your wallet and hope like hell you get an opportunity to get your gun out before he shoots you!
If I am doing old west quick draw, I sure as heck ain't gonna try it with a Glock in an IWB holster! There is nothing macho about being shot dead by a street thug.
Gord
Member
Mr.Davis said:
You have a 50/50 chance of walking away without further incident.
Conversely, if you start trying to yank a gun out of your waistband while someone has the drop on you, what do you think they're going to do - completely abandon their position of relative safety and advantage, turn around and book it?
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