NICS operations during a government shutdown.....

[dogtown tom]

I just received the following email from FBI NICS:

We just received word......NICS will be operational during normal business hours in the event of a Government shutdown.

Thanks and have a good day,
Kim Brown
NICS Section FFL Liaison Specialist

 

[JoeMal]

Hey Tom. Kudos for checking into this. I thought I read somewhere that NICS would be shut down but it looks like that's not the case.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

[tarosean]

Heck people are buying guns in record numbers.. Gotta be the one branch of our gov making a dime...

 

[barnbwt]

Essential personnel, indeed

(in reality, they'd never take the chance that the shutdown would last longer than the background check period, in which case, non-cleared purchasers would go through, regardless )

I'm more curious if the ATF Tech Branch and Form 1 Approval office are getting a vacation...

TCB

 

[ChaoSS]

A shut down doesn't mean a shut down, immediately. They just can't pay out any money. I'm sure even during an extended shutdown most people would continue coming to work, they would get all the back pay eventually, and it takes awhile before the utility companies start shutting off the power to their buildings.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Actually, the sale can go through after so many days if the government fails to respond (five days?). At least that was the way it was originally set up. Does anyone know if that has changed?

 

[dogtown tom]

SharpsDressedMan Actually, the sale can go through after so many days if the government fails to respond (five days?). At least that was the way it was originally set up. Does anyone know if that has changed?

When FBI NICS gives a "Delayed" response they have three business days, beginning the next business day, to deny the sale. After that third business day the Brady Law does not prohibit the dealer from transferring the firearm.

If NICS were to shut down, no firearm could be transferred EXCEPT for those buyers who hold a fireams permit that serves as an exemption to the NICS check.

 

[Blondie]

When FBI NICS gives a "Delayed" response they have three business days, beginning the next business day, to deny the sale. After that third business day the Brady Law does not prohibit the dealer from transferring the firearm.

If NICS were to shut down, no firearm could be transferred EXCEPT for those buyers who hold a fireams permit that serves as an exemption to the NICS check.

This seems contradictory. Which is it - can a firearm be transferred after 3 business days, or can the firearm be transferred only if the buyer has a firearms permit exemption?

 

[tarosean]

[This seems contradictory. Which is it - can a firearm be transferred after 3 business days, or can the firearm be transferred only if the buyer has a firearms permit exemption?

TX (and others) CHL holders do not need to undergo an NCIS check. So if they are all shut down it really don't matter...

 

[herrwalther]

Apparently the NRA was swamped with this same question of whether NICS will still work during a shutdown. They posted the statement below for anyone who doesn't have Facebook

NRA-ILA has received a number of questions on the status of the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) in the case of a government shutdown. Law enforcement activities are designated as essential services and do not shut down even if the Congress and President fail to agree on funding legislation. The NICS system will continue to operate.

Personally if the government shuts down, there are a few more important things than getting that next item off my wishlist. But that is me.

 

[dogtown tom]

Blondie

Quote:
When FBI NICS gives a "Delayed" response they have three business days, beginning the next business day, to deny the sale. After that third business day the Brady Law does not prohibit the dealer from transferring the firearm.

If NICS were to shut down, no firearm could be transferred EXCEPT for those buyers who hold a fireams permit that serves as an exemption to the NICS check.

This seems contradictory. Which is it - can a firearm be transferred after 3 business days, or can the firearm be transferred only if the buyer has a firearms permit exemption?

If you hold a firearm permit that is approved as an exemption to the NICS check the dealer doesn't have to call the FBI...........he simply records the information from the permit.

If NICS were to shut down, those who do not hold an approved firearm permit would be out of luck........as the dealer could not run your background check.

 

[Blondie]

f NICS were to shut down, those who do not hold an approved firearm permit would be out of luck........as the dealer could not run your background check.

Wow - that is just asking for a constitutional challenge, and just think if extended background checks had passed! There would also be Bivens lawsuits filed against FFLs. Yuck!

 

[Ryanxia]

If the NICS shut down it would be time to amp up those private sales.

 

[dogtown tom]

Blondie .....There would also be Bivens lawsuits filed against FFLs....

Not likely for several reasons:
1. "Bivens lawsuits" are Fourth Amendment challenges vs the government.
2. FFL's are not agents of the government, but private businesses.
3. There is no ATF regulation, Federal law or USSC ruling that requires a licensed dealer to sell or transfer a firearm to anyone at any time.

 

[Cryogaijin]

For once I think I'm glad Oregon BG checks are done locally.

 

[Blondie]

I stand corrected. I did a search and there was a circuit split on whether Bivens actions would extend to private individuals acting under federal law. The SCOTUS resolved the conflict in Minneci v. Pollard, 132 S. Ct. 617 (U.S. 2012) that such a claim would not be recognized because, generally, there are state tort law remedies against private individuals (they don't have qualified immunity like gubmint officials).

Anyhow, if you know anything about the plaintiffs' bar, that means they would plead some kind of tort claim like conversion or trover if a FFL refused to release a firearm to someone that just purchased it (assuming the person wasn't otherwise disqualified), and if the defendant had a decent net worth (think national chain of outdoorsy stores), you can bet the farm there would be an allegation of reckless disregard for others' rights to support a request for punitive damages. Yikes!

Again, let's all be thankful the NICS is up and running!

 

[dogtown tom]

Blondie .....Anyhow, if you know anything about the plaintiffs' bar, that means they would plead some kind of tort claim like conversion or trover if a FFL refused to release a firearm to someone that just purchased it (assuming the person wasn't otherwise disqualified), and if the defendant had a decent net worth (think national chain of outdoorsy stores), you can bet the farm there would be an allegation of reckless disregard for others' rights to support a request for punitive damages.....

You can bet the farm that the case would be dismissed as soon as the plaintiffs attorney becomes aware that the gun dealer could not legally transfer the firearm under Federal law......meaning his idiot client would be in violation of Federal law by taking possession before NICS issues a "proceed" on the transaction.

While the buyer may own the firearm, it cannot legally be transferred unless a 4473 is completed and the buyer passes his NICS check.

But go ahead and hire an attorney, it's your $$$$.

 

[bikemutt]

Picked up a new Glock 21SF today, dealer used E-Check. No problemo.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

I'm sure even during an extended shutdown most people would continue coming to work, they would get all the back pay eventually

You are correct that many federal employees deemed essential are still at work, however there is no promise they will ever receive back pay when things start back up (and it's happened before that they didn't). Congress needs to gets its act together because this is just ridiculous and childish.

I'm sure NICS is definitely deemed essential.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

NSA is also considered essential.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

The National Seed Storage Labs are still open so you can sleep confidently....

Colorado also conducts its own background checks. Does anyone have a list of the states that still rely of the Federal Government?

 

[dogtown tom]

Steel Horse Rider .....Colorado also conducts its own background checks.

Colorado is a "point of contact" state.......meaning dealers contact a state agency for background checks instead of contacting the FBI NICS section directly.

Does anyone have a list of the states that still rely of the Federal Government?

Only these:
Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Illinois
Indiana
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maine
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Vermont
Virginia
Washington
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming

If you spend less time posting about secret organizations, "progressives" and silly conspiracies and more time educating yourself on firearms law and the Brady Law you would know why EVERY state (and US territories) rely on the Federal government for background checks.

The databases that Colorado uses to run background checks are the exact same ones as the FBI NICS...........and they are Federally maintained, not something Colorado built and maintained.

Among them are:
National Crime Information Center (NCIC), which contains information on wanted persons and protection orders.

Interstate Identification Index (III), which contains criminal history records.

NICS Index contains information that may not be available in the NCIC or the III regarding persons predetermined to be prohibited from receiving firearms under federal or state law.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) search is also conducted on all non-U.S. citizens.

 

[InkEd]

Tennessee does a TBI background check.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

So you are smugly stating that all states that supposedly do the checks "in house" are actually merely accessing the federal database through their agents rather than actually doing the checks themselves as they advertise?
As InkEd posted above concerning Tennessee and Cryogaijin posted about Oregon, Colorado claims that the Colorado Bureau of Investigation conducts the background checks here. In fact, part of the gun legislation concerning face to face transactions that was passed last legislative session added a fee for funding purposes.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

As InkEd posted above concerning Tennessee and Cryogaijin posted about Oregon, Colorado claims that the Colorado Bureau of Investigation conducts the background checks here. In fact, part of the gun legislation concerning face to face transactions that was passed last legislative session added a fee for funding purposes.

I'm not going to say that dogtown tom is necessarily right (as I don't know for sure) but I will point out that while CBI or TBI may be doing the check, that check may well depend on access to a federal database as dogtown tom says. The fee for funding would still be required as those local agencies would need a budget to cover the officers performing the check. It's quite possible, that really just another layer of bureaucracy has been added to the system.