NJ Asw Quigley, "You've got a problem!"

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It didn't paste as neatly as intended, but it comes from the NJleg website and is the roll call of votes for yesterday's A339. The info is at: http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/bills/BillView.asp

47 to 28 wasn't close, but it showed more support than was first thought. My two reps both abstained. I'll be working on them. 47 - 32 would have sounded even better if the abstains were NO.

Session Voting:
Asm. 6/23/2008 - 3RDG FINAL PASSAGE - Yes {47} No {28} Not Voting {1} Abstains {4} - Roll Call
Addiego, Dawn Marie - Abstain Albano, Nelson T. - No Amodeo, John F. - No
Angelini, Mary Pat - Yes Barnes, Peter J., III - Yes Biondi, Peter J. - No
Bramnick, Jon M. - Yes Burzichelli, John J. - No Caputo, Ralph R. - Yes
Carroll, Michael Patrick - No Casagrande, Caroline - No Chiappone, Anthony - Yes
Chiusano, Gary R. - No Chivukula, Upendra J. - Yes Cohen, Neil M. - Yes
Conaway, Herb, Jr. - Yes Conners, Jack - Yes Coutinho, Albert - Yes
Coyle, Denise M. - No Cruz-Perez, Nilsa - Yes Cryan, Joseph - Yes
Dancer, Ronald S. - No DeAngelo, Wayne P. - Yes DeCroce, Alex - No
Diegnan, Patrick J., Jr. - Yes Doherty, Michael J. - No Egan, Joseph V. - Yes
Evans, Elease - Yes Fisher, Douglas H. - No Giblin, Thomas P. - Yes
Green, Jerry - Yes Greenstein, Linda R. - Yes Greenwald, Louis D. - Yes
Gusciora, Reed - Yes Handlin, Amy H. - Yes Holzapfel, James W. - No
Jasey, Mila M. - Yes Johnson, Gordon M. - Yes Karrow, Marcia A. - No
Lampitt, Pamela R. - Yes Love, Sandra - Yes Malone, Joseph R., III - No
McHose, Alison Littell - No McKeon, John F. - Yes Merkt, Richard A. - No
Milam, Matthew W. - No Moriarty, Paul D. - Yes Munoz, Eric - Yes
O'Scanlon, Declan J., Jr. - No Oliver, Sheila Y. - Yes Polistina, Vincent J. - No
Pou, Nellie - Yes Prieto, Vincent - Yes Quigley, Joan M. - Yes
Ramos, Ruben J., Jr. - Yes Rible, David P. - Yes Roberts, Joseph J., Jr. - Yes
Rodriguez, Caridad - Yes Rooney, John E. - No Rudder, Scott - Abstain
Rumana, Scott T. - No Rumpf, Brian E. - No Russo, David C. - No
Scalera, Frederick - Yes Schaer, Gary S. - Yes Smith, L. Harvey - Yes
Spencer, L. Grace - Yes Stender, Linda - Yes Thompson, Samuel D. - Not Voting
Tucker, Cleopatra G. - Yes Vainieri Huttle, Valerie - Yes Van Pelt, Daniel M. - No
Vandervalk, Charlotte - No Vas, Joseph - Yes Voss, Joan M. - Abstain
Wagner, Connie - Yes Watson Coleman, Bonnie - Yes Webber, Jay - No
Wisniewski, John S. - Abstain Wolfe, David W. - No
 
Assemblywoman Joan Quigley

242 Tenth Street, Suite 101
Jersey City

Her home office address explains a great deal about her ignorant statements.
 
NJ politics is the primary reason that I have been unable to escape the conclusion that it's malfeasance, rather than ignorance.
 
"There are too many people that can legitimately buy guns, do so, and then lose them and then in a very short time, those guns are used in homicides."

Is anyone aware of available statistics to support or deny this assertion? It's easy to fault someone for their ignorance and arrogance but we have to find ways to educate them since, especially in NJ, it appears as though they will always be with us.

Any gun purchased in NJ within the last several decades will be on file with the NJSP and could be quickly traced back to its owner. I seriously doubt whether gun owners as a whole are so absent-minded that we are losing our guns on a mass scale.
 
Despite my calls and emails I see my representative turned his back and voted yes.

Has anyone tried a town hall approach where a representative would need to communicate his support for legislation to those he represents? I think most politicians are cowards who would do anything to stay employed.

I want to hold him accountable but don't see any way to do so.
 
"There are too many people that can legitimately buy guns, do so, and then lose them and then in a very short time, those guns are used in homicides."
Click to expand...

I have had an insight! Because you folks have been so quick to judge New Jersey Assemblywoman Joan Quigley so harshly, you have completely missed her real achievement.

She has solved the mystery. You know how cops say "We got another gun off the street" and how politicians say "We need to get guns off the street"?

New Jersey Assemblywoman Joan Quigley has just explained how those guns get on the street: careless gun buyers lose them there.

So that's the real answer to gun control: when you buy a gun, tie a piece of string around it so you don't lose it.
 
This gives a foothold to incrementalism.
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NJ already has an A- rating from the Brady's. I think they are going for the fabled A that is always dangling just out of reach. When are we going to see the one book a month law?
 
So that's the real answer to gun control: when you buy a gun, tie a piece of string around it so you don't lose it.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Back when many guns had lanyards attached, we didnt have this problem with lost guns all over the streets.True historical fact, right there.:D
 
This is truly disgusting, but at least 28 voted with some intelligence. While it makes me upset to live in this state, I know that discussions with my assemblywoman were worth the 7 weeks it took to get on her calendar. At least she voted NO to this bill and to the 50 Cal ban when it was in committee.
Since I am stuck here in NJ for at least more years, I will continue to fight the good fight whenever possible....

Has anyone assembled the voting stats by Democrat/Republican on A339?
 
It seems to me that NJ wants to be just like CA.
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CA is in NO way anything like the dirty, corrupt, tax to the max cess pool known as NJ.

At least in CA, there are a great many areas where "normal" people can get a concealed carry permit. Try that in Joisey. :rolleyes:
 
"Lost" Guns in NJ

Actually, the largest source of "off the book" transfers in NJ are cops. My uncle and cousin had amassed a fairly decent collection which went to the daughter/sister. Tragically, her husband (Newark PD) died a couple of years later and one of her husband's "friends" came to my cousin and told her that "she wouldn't be needing those things" and took them. Collectively, they were worth several thousands, at least. Most of them were off the books and after that, they all were. Sadly, my cousin died last year. Her daughter could have used the money. In a stroke of true irony, the taker is also now dead. This is not an isolated case. Cop's estates regularly have guns stolen from them in NJ.

Russ
 
This article sheds some light on how the opposition played with BATF statistics and how those wanting to believe, did (not sure if I added the link properly so have included the article from NJ.com):

http://blog.nj.com/njv_scott_bach/2008/06/gun_rationing_bill_a339_target.html

Gun Rationing Bill A339 Targets Victims, Interferes With Law Enforcement
Posted by Scott L. Bach, Esq. June 22, 2008 7:01PM

A New Jersey Court recently pronounced: "There is no rational relationship between restricting the number of guns that a licensed gun dealer and a licensed gun owner can transact per month and the frequency of illegal gun possession and crime."

In so holding, the Court voided a local ordinance that rationed firearms specifically to law abiding citizens pre-certified by the State as having no criminal or mental health record after passing a 13-point background investigation.

Trying to reduce gun crime by rationing firearms to law abiding citizens is a little like trying to reduce stabbings by rationing steak knives to restaurant goers, which is why the Court found the ordinance to be irrational. The criminal misuse of any lawful product is not a function of the number of units sold to honest citizens; it's a function of how effectively society deals with those who misuse them

Despite judicial recognition of the fallacy of gun rationing, gun ban extremist group CeaseFire NJ, embarrassed by its loss at the local level, is now pushing for passage of statewide gun rationing in the form of Assembly Bill A339, misleadingly citing statistics to buoy their latest whopper -- that handguns bought by law abiding citizens from New Jersey licensed dealers are significantly involved in crime and illegal trafficking.

Obtaining a permit to purchase a handgun in New Jersey is a lengthy, intrusive, expensive and complicated process. The absurd notion that criminals voluntarily subject themselves to police fingerprinting, invasive background checks, licensing fees, and months of delays, only to then turn around and illegally sell the guns registered to them on the street, strains reason and credibility.

Yet that's precisely the fairy tale that CeaseFire and its gun grabbing director Bryan Miller are peddling to the legislature on A339, deceptively citing BATFE gun tracing statistics to "prove" that large quantities of legally purchased guns are used in crime. What they conveniently forget to mention is that a large percentage of the traced guns have nothing whatsoever to do with criminal activity, but they are given the label "crime gun" nevertheless, because of a BATFE database requirement that all traced firearms must first be given a descriptive code before they can be entered into the system, and the only available codes happen to carry the designation "crime" in their name, regardless of whether the traced firearms were actually involved in crime.

The so called "crime guns" misleadingly cited by CeaseFire include firearms recovered after house fires, floods, and other natural disasters, firearms recovered from gun buy-back programs, firearms surrendered by the spouses of deceased gun owners, firearms identified during routine inspections of licensed dealer books and records, firearms seized by court order, and lost or stolen firearms that are later recovered, all of which have to be booked as "crime guns" before they can be traced.

The last time I checked, a gun recovered after a house fire is not a crime gun, and its listing in a BATFE statistic proves nothing except that it was the subject of a trace. The fact that it was assigned a "crime code" in order to initiate a trace does not mean it was involved in crime, except to extremists like CeaseFire and Miller, who need to stoop to petty deception and misdirection to trick public officials into supporting their agenda.

Similarly misleading is CeaseFire's suggestion that A339 would disrupt illegal gun trafficking. Rationing guns to law abiding citizens would not only fail to impact illegal gun trafficking (already a felony for which no new laws are needed), but it would actually interfere with law enforcement monitoring of bulk gun sales by thwarting the reporting of multiple handgun purchases to authorities currently mandated by federal law. In what universe does a scheme like that do anything to reduce gun trafficking?

Gun rationing was passed several years ago in South Carolina but was subsequently repealed when BATFE statistics showed that illegal trafficking was not impacted. Gun rationing was similarly shown to be ineffective in Virginia, where it had the effect of disarming victims rather than the criminals it purported to restrict. It is as unsound in theory as it has been in practice in the few states that have been bamboozled into passing it.

New Jersey's version of gun rationing, A339, is particularly offensive to honest gun owners, who already submit to months of invasive government scrutiny before being certified by the State as "acceptable" to own firearms. A339 goes even further, essentially telling them that they are the ones responsible for gun crime, and that the solution, rather than aggressive prosecution of criminals, is to further restrict their rights. Only in New Jersey...
 
After A339 was let out of committee,

I went out and applied for a multiple pistol permit and then purchased them.
There are a few ways to vote with your wallet !
While I could not afford adding 13 more pistols in a year, the damn laws is ridiculous as it will serve no valuable purpose....
 
This gives a foothold to incrementalism.
Click to expand...
Saying that some gun law in Jersey gives a foothold to incrementalism is like an Indian saying that a new skyscaper in Manhattan gives a foothold to European encroachment. That battle was fought, and lost, a long time ago. I'm not one to ever say abandon a fight, but if Jersey wanted to secede I'd help 'em pack, and welcome the American refugees into Pennsylvania.
 
So that's the real answer to gun control: when you buy a gun, tie a piece of string around it so you don't lose it.
Click to expand...

Just don't tie one end of that string to the trigger and the other end to a belt loop because that is a machine gun and machine guns are bad! I was stationed in NJ for two years on a PB with a great crew, had a lot of fun, and never want to go back there because of the gun laws. Same thing with CA.
 
I sent off a note to Asm Connors thanking him and let him know of this thread. He appreciated the comments. Hopefully some of you from other states sent some messages to Quigley as well. It might help if they knew they were playing in front of a national audience.
 
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