NJ Republican Signs 10 Anti-Gun Bills

[Willie Sutton]

^^ Precisely.

I think you need to have lived there to really understand all of the nuances.

Christie made his mark locking up corrupt NJ State officials, with a 100% conviction rate. He's basically a good guy, but is a product of the environment as well. There's no such thing as a pro second amendment "winner in any political race" in NJ. The best that folks can hope for is a neutral. Christie has NOT signed any of the bills that are of serious concern to the *engaged second amendment activists in NJ* (who I stay in very close contact with, having been one myself for decades). They realize that the balancing act is being done, and that if Christie put a veto on the entire set of bills sent to him that he would have zero chance in future NJ politics (meaning that the Dems would regain control of the statehouse). Since their position already sucks, sticking on a few "feel good" but irrelevent bills while not taking action on the "harmful" ones is about as good as they can realistically hope for. The bottom line is that it's a choice for NJ gunowners to either suck this one up, or have a TRULY anti in that chair after the next election cycle. Think it's bad now? The NJ Dems would be falling over themselves to beat NY and Connecticut in the race to extinguish any private ownership of anything other than a single shot .22

Realpolitik is a fact.. and this is an example. If Christie vetoed the entire thing, NJ would be even more screwed soon than it is right now. You need to think the long game.

NJ's best hope is that the latest CCW case goes to SCOTUS and is won. Ten years after that when CCW holders aren't shooting up the streets, there is a possibility that the general firearms culture in NJ politics might swing. But for now... this is what it is.

Personally, and this is from being one step removed from Christie (I know several of his staffers), I really don't think he's seriously interested in running for national office. He said no last time, and I don't really think much has changed. He seems happy to be doing a good job in NJ, and I think he knows that you cannot "really" succeed as President in this day and age. I don't think he wants to fail, and I think (and hope) he will stay where he is. I know that many NJ conservatives and libertarians are trying to discourage him from a national play: He's far too valuable to NJ right where he sits today. NJ's problems are architectural, and until those issues are taken care of there will be zero advance towards the "sideshow" of second amendment politics. He's working on the public employee union issues, terrible education issues, and corruption issues. Let him do that and maybe we can then get some decent representation in the statehouse. Only when the statehouse is secure can the issues that we really want to discuss here can come to the fore. Right now he's bailing a sinking ship and tossing lifeboat rations into the raft.

So don't throw stones at Christie. He's in a VERY VERY VERY hard place to do a good job. He's doing OK. NJ has a choice between him and those who are 100% on the other side of our belief system. It's what it is. Nobody closer to what we want would stand a remote chance of election.


Willie

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[sota]

Well written Mr. Sutton.

If I may add...
It's a game of LESSENING the desired infringments; slowing the freight train if you will. You cannot and never will reverse it in a moments notice. We can however work hard to slow the infringments and continue to do so until they are stopped. THEN we can work to reverse them once we have the political momentum on our side. The populace in general doesn't care about 2A as a major issue (due to the aforementioned other bigger problems, and the overall lack of 'gun culture' in this state which I'm trying as hard as I can to contribute to increasing. I'm only 1 man.)

In short, they may be considered "losses", but they're small losses or losses of no consequence. If you lose less each time eventually you'll lose nothing, and can start to gain back that which was lost.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I disagree with the premise that losing your fundamental rights without due process is a small loss, a loss of no consequence or something that it is OK to trade away so you can get reelected.

I'm sorry New Jersey is in such a horrible place that voting for such a man seems a better choice than the alternative; but we're saying the same thing essentially: if Christie thinks that upholding the civil rights of some part of society won't get him reelected, he has zero problem denying them their rights under the Constitution as long as he THINKS it might help him.

Personally, I don't see how you are going to win many fights with someone who switches sides any time he thinks there is a better deal. If that is the best NJ has, then for God's sake make sure he stays there and we'll all be happier.

 

[Pilot]

Personally, I don't see how you are going to win many fights with someone who switches sides any time he thinks there is a better deal. If that is the best NJ has, then for God's sake make sure he stays there and we'll all be happier.

Well, that's the thing. These guys are never happy with their current job, they typically want to achieve higher office. So "keeping him there" should be our goal, but he seems to be a populist, and probably will get a lot of Independent support, and maybe even a few Dems.

 

[Deanimator]

The problem is........Christie IS a likely republican nominee......and that just sickens me.

As far as I'm concerned, he's in the same category as Giuliani, for whom I'd also NEVER vote, no matter against WHOM he ran.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"I disagree with the premise that losing your fundamental rights without due process is a small loss, a loss of no consequence or something that it is OK to trade away so you can get reelected"


OK: Well then ya'll best bring your outrage to NJ and work against him in the autumn gubernatorial election. You will have a choice of him, or a flaming left wing rabid anti-gun opponent whio wants to beat NY for "best anti gun laws passed". And then we can see how that works out...


Like I said, it's Realpolitik... so get real.



Willie


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[Tom609]

then for God's sake make sure he stays there and we'll all be happier.

We'll make a deal with you. We'll keep ours here and you keep yours there.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

A New Jersey Republican would be a Democrat anywhere else. It's just that a New Jersey Democrat would be a Communist anywhere else. Same applies in much of the urban Northeast.

 

[Hacker15E]

Regardless of the hype, Christie is DOA on the national level due to his (anti) RKBA history.

 

[Willie Sutton]

^^


Yup. For the tiny fraction of voters who really care... and really... Obama is as anti gun as Pelosi, but he can only sign what the Con-Grease sends him. The POTUS`is really pretty low down the totem pole in the RKBA legislation arena. Christie? Imagine him as President. He's not going to go to war with Congress to get any anti-RKBA laws passed. And what he's signed to date? Let's see: (Willie tries to work up concern and outrage)... <yawn>... OK, I'm over it. Summary: It's now a worse crime that it was to be a gang-banger carrying a handgun. Big deal.... He also signed a bill exempting gun license holders names from being part of the public record. Note that this is one of the "TEN GUN BILLS" he signed. Uhh... That's one that's GOOD for us, guys...

Pay attention:

“Of the ten bills signed today, we supported two, opposed two, and were neutral on the remaining six,” Scott Bach, executive director of the New Jersey Association of Rifle and Pistol Clubs"


Let's do the math together:

We (I am a member of several of the clubs comprising the NJARPC) SUPPORTED two, so we can argue about the other EIGHT (not ten).

So let's right off the bat put the "Christie signed ten anti gun bills" statements right in the trash where they belong.


Moving on:

We were NEUTRAL on six, meaning that "Who Cares", meaning that we can argue about the remaining TWO.

We OPPOSED TWO (Yeah... me too... but it's hard to get really excited about the terrorist watch list, I mean really.... )


Now pay close attention to the following:

HE DID NOT SIGN THE BILL ON UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR PRIVATE SALES, and shows no inclination to do so.... this is the killer one.

So here's how we "Win" in NJ: It's just how things are:

There is ONE bill that we really don't want signed, and he didn't.

So:

In the Realpolitik of New Jersey, not in fantasy-land, we won.



Remember, that no matter how strongly WE feel, WE are a VERY SMALL minority of voters.... and when confronted with, for example... Hillary on one side and Chris on the other, where do you really think the "General" NRA vote will go? Yeah, you can toss it away and vote for Ron Paul, I guess... but... in the real world... you'll vote for Chris.


In any event, the NJ paying RKBA activists (which includes me) aren't up in arms about the latest signatures he put on a few bills that don't *really* change a thing... so... <shrugs>... and Texans don't get to vote in NJ (which is sad to say... maybe if the odd million Texans moved to NJ we would be better off... come on up, ya'll!)



And dead at the national level? Uhh... I don't think so. Just a few days ago:

Quinnipiac published results of a new poll Monday which finds Chris Christie is the "hottest" national political figure in the country. Christie beats potential 2016 rival Hillary Clinton by one degree, 53.1 to 52.1. The Quinnipiac poll asks respondents to give a number between 0-100 when read a list of names. The higher the number the more positive their feelings about that person. The final score is the mean of all the responses. Christie and Clinton were the only two national political figures who topped 50 in the final results for all respondents.



I don't love him, BTW. I just see things as they are, not as I wish them to be.


Willie

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[zxcvbob]

Remember, that no matter how strongly WE feel, WE are a VERY SMALL minority of voters.... and when confronted with, for example... Hillary on one side and Chris on the other, where do you really think the "General" NRA vote will go? Yeah, you can toss it away and vote for Ron Paul, I guess... but... in the real world... you'll vote for Chris.

No, if that happens I'll vote for Gary Johnson (again.) But long BEFORE then, I'll be working in the Republican primary/caucus to get someone on the ballot that I can actually vote for.

 

[Willie Sutton]

"No, if that happens I'll vote for Gary Johnson"


Thanks for throwing your vote away. Obama really appreciated your gesture. Nobody else felt better.

Remember, we live in the real world. Vote for one of the two that has a chance to actually win... or you might as well just stay home. The time to support other candidates is during the primaries and caucuses. I'd support Johnson then, but not after the selections were made otherwise.


Willie

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[PBR Streetgang]

Willie, as a former NJ resident that fled the state after retirement ,I thank you for your views. I was involved I pro 2a legislation when living there, we probably have some mutual friends .

In the stroke of a pen Gov.Florio made me a criminal with his assault weapon ban even though I purchased them legally.

I now reside in FL and have become a "Stamp Collector" Good luck on your battle.....

 

[Willie Sutton]

"PBR Streetgang, this is Almighty, over... " ...

"I'm unconcerned. I'm beyond their timid, lying morality. And so I'm beyond caring..." Kurtz


And thus I am... unconcerned.

Thanks for the reply... and we probably do have mutual friends.

I moved out after Hurricaine Sandy destroyed the only reason I was staying in NJ and I now gladly reside in Wisconsin, where I get to be a free citizen at long last. I now send my checks to the SAF and ILA and to the NJ Clubs that I still support. I'm in the fight... but from a safe spot. I took my company, money, employees, taxable revenue, and intellectual value to society elsewhere, and I wrote letters to over 100 people telling them why. Vote with your feet and money, tell others why, and then support the fight in absentia. That's how to change things while enjoying life yourself. Atlas Shrugged. So did Willie.

Florio made us criminals at the stroke of a pen. McGreevy and Corzine are both criminals themselves, in the literal sense. To expect me to get upset now because Christie signed a bill making it illegal to buy a handgun if you are on the terrorism watch list is really pushing it... Noting that he also signed a bill the same day making my name as a NJ FID Holder safe from public records requests. He's been pretty good at putting corrupt politicians in jail, and standing up to the public employees unions. I'd call that a really good change compared to what we've "enjoyed" before.


Stamp Collecting is fun!





Willie

.



"We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats' feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar
Shape without form, shade without colour,
Paralysed force, gesture without motion;"

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Didn't vote for McCain. Didn't vote for Romney. Not voting for Christie - ever. To my mind the only difference between Christie and the commie-du-jour is how fast they want to drive the train over the cliff; but both seem to agree on the direction.

I think I've outlined my objections to the legislation Christie signed and why I believe they are anathema to constitutional government as well as I can. Christie has been anti-2A, just signed anti-2A legislation, and will sell us down the river at the first opportunity if elected to national office. Nobody even tries to dispute this - the best anyone can offer is that someone had to be thrown into the volcano to please voters and we should be grateful that Christie didn't throw more gun owners in after the first few. I find that damn small comfort and nothing to recommend a man for public office.

 

[zxcvbob]

Thanks for throwing your vote away. Obama really appreciated your gesture. Nobody else felt better.

Remember, we live in the real world. Vote for one of the two that has a chance to actually win... or you might as well just stay home. The time to support other candidates is during the primaries and caucuses. I'd support Johnson then, but not after the selections were made otherwise.

I won't use the foul language that would be an appropriate response; use you imagination.

I was (actually, still am) a Republican delegate for my county. I tried to make a difference early in the process while it was still possible, rather than wait until November and see what's on the ballot. I could have voted for Romney if he'd won the nomination fair and square, but with the nomination in the bag he cheated anyway at the convention by unseating duly elected delegates and by denying Ron Paul the prime time speaking slot he was guaranteed (and IIRC they gave that slot to a Democrat) It was pretty clear that he didn't want my vote, and I would have done the Republicans a disservice by voting for 'em.

 

[sota]

It's disheartening to see the divide in here, between people who look like the Obama camp (CHANGE, NOW!) and the ones who live in reality (small moves.) Unless you're going to stand there and tell me it's time to run outside with my rifle and don my Special Hat, then you're not going to fix the problem in one shot. (pun intended.) NJ will not be won with overnight change. NY will not be won with overnight change. CA will not be won with overnight change. Consider that if they were... they could be changed BACK OVERNIGHT AS WELL!

 

[sota]

Personally, I don't see how you are going to win many fights with someone who switches sides any time he thinks there is a better deal.

Perhaps he's not choosing sides, but choosing to do what's right and what needs to be done, regardless of the perceived political fallout.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Let's groom that Texas governor for the Republican slot. NJ? Really? Is someone going to take a NJ gov seriously?

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Perhaps he's not choosing sides, but choosing to do what's right and what needs to be done, regardless of the perceived political fallout.

I am confused. Willie indicated he believed Christie decided that denying people a right expressly listed in the Bill of Rights without due process, based on being on a secret list that you don't even know about, was an acceptable bone to throw the anti crowd so he could oppose other gun measures and Christie was just doing what he needed to do to get reelected in NJ.

If Christie was truly concerned about doing what was right regardless of political fallout, he certainly missed a golden opportunity to explain what was wrong with the terrorist watchlist bill and why we don't deny fundamental rights expressly described in the Bill of Rights without a trial and based on a secret list you don't even know you are on. That would have been a hard choice and one Willie says is politically unpopular in NJ.

So you appeared to agree with Willie at first that Christie prized his own reelection more highly than he did the rights of his fellow citizens; but now you are arguing that Christie genuinely believes in allowing people to be stripped of their constitutional rights because an unelected bureaucrat puts them on a secret list. And you also appear to think that this recommends him for a position of leadership?

 

[kwguy]

If Christie is the best we can come up with, then the 2a is in deep trouble.

 

[David E]

So don't throw stones at Christie.

I will throw stones at him. He's an anti-gunner.

He's in a VERY VERY VERY hard place to do a good job. He's doing OK.

That's good for NJ, I suppose, but I don't care. I've read multiple horror stories about people being imprisoned for years for a "gun offense" that's not an offense anywhere else. He's done nothing to stem that tide.

NJ has a choice between him and those who are 100% on the other side of our belief system.

Hopefully, the rest of the United States will have a better choice than the two-faced CC. If he is the "best" the republicans can come up with, I'll lose what precious little faith in the system I have left. I won't vote for him.

 

[Tommy Van Alen]

I think if Christie gets the nomination, a lot of people are going to stay home on election day, and just by default whoever is the Democrat's nominee will win the election.

I really, really wish we could split up electoral college points in each state.

 

[PonyKiller]

In Jersey He's the best we've got, and had in some time. A little glimpse of why it seems people wait for there moment and escape this state like an east Berliner hopping the wall and charging through the no mans land.
When Your getting Throttled by Property taxes at the rate of 5g a year for a townhouse, about 1g a year for liability insurance per car, Layers and layers of corrupt beuracracy when it comes to construction, or even clearing land, Corruption at the local, county and state levels that cost everyone a mint with nepotism, graft, and kickbacks.
It's sad that a governor has to cap property tax increases, clear out double and triple dipping of no show jobs and pensions, baby sit Camden who's police force was so corrupt that the state police now patrol the city, and investigate and stamp out election fraud seeing that some people were casting ten votes a person in Atlantic city and Camden. As has been said the problems in this state run deep, and he's doing a good job chipping away at them. He may not be the answer to national politics, but Christie is doing a good job here, I hope we keep him.

Remember, no one really lives in jersey, we survive here long enough to see a gap in the search lights and make our brake for it.

 

[jerkface11]

You have to love the idea that not voting for the Rino is throwing your vote away. I'd rather see Hillary in the White House than McCain, Bloomberg, Romney, or Christie.