NM, AR, WA, NC, OH, MS, OK & WI Law Updates

[Gary Slider]

New Mexico and Arkansas have signed a Reciprocity Agreement. The State of NM has not announced this agreement yet but they are very slow at updating their website. AR DPS has updated their website and has added NM as a state they have signed with. You can see the listing here:
http://www.asp.state.ar.us/divisions/rs/rs_chl_law.html

Washington has added Tennessee to the list of states it will honor. Tennessee already honors all other states permit/licenses. You can see that listing here:
http://www.atg.wa.gov/page.aspx?id=7772

North Carolina’s new law (H650) will make NC another state that will honor all other states permit/licenses. It will also allow carry in more places (State Parks Etc) but does not go into effect until 12/1/11. I will update the NC page on that date to show the changes in their law.

Ohio Restaurant Carry Law has passed and they have changed their law about how a firearm must be carried in a vehicle. They have dropped some of the craziness from just how the firearm had to be carried. This new law does not take effect until 9/30/11.

Mississippi DPS has announced that they have certified Enhanced Instructors who can train permit/license holders for an endorsement to their permit/license that allows them to carry in many of the places off limits in Mississippi law. I have still not obtained information on how this will affect those who can carry in Mississippi with a permit/license Mississippi honors. They can’t get an endorsement so all places in MS Law will most likely be off limits to those carrying in Mississippi under a reciprocity agreement.

Oklahoma has passed a new law that trims places off limits. This mainly opens parking areas and allows you to keep a firearm in your vehicle while on certain property. This new law does not take effect until 11/1/11. The OK Page will be undated at that time to show the change in OK Laws.

Wisconsin new carry law goes into effect 11/1/11 and on that date Wisconsin Residents can apply. They should by that time have a list of states they will honor. That list should be about 35 to 40 states long as they will honor any state that requires a background check to obtain a Permit/License. I have added a Draft Wisconsin Page to www.handgunlaw.us providing all the info I have at this time on their new law.

 

[Sam1911]

You're a wonder, Gary! Thanks for keeping on top of this stuff!

 

[bikemutt]

+1 from a WA CPL holder. TN is a great state BTW, visited years ago, on my short list to re-visit.

 

[JellyJar]

Thanks for all the hard work. I really appreciate it!

 

[valnar]

Ohio Restaurant Carry Law has passed and they have changed their law about how a firearm must be carried in a vehicle. They have dropped some of the craziness from just how the firearm had to be carried. This new law does not take effect until 9/30/11.

Can you be more specific on this one? Thanks!

Edit. Nevermind. I found the Legalise/English translation here:
http://www.ohioccw.org/201106304942/new-rules-for-vehicle-carry-the-other-half-of-sb17.html

 

[Ally]

Hi Gary, please let us NC folk know when we can carry in restaurants/bars. Much appreciated!

 

[WNC Seabee]

Hi Gary, please let us NC folk know when we can carry in restaurants/bars. Much appreciated!

This is not a part of the HB650 that Gary is referencing. That provision of the bill was killed before passage. We'll have to try again next year on Restaurant carry.

 

[45crittergitter]

The Mississippi law DOES NOT REQUIRE an endorsement on the permit to carry in the additional places, as long as one has the regular permit AND some safety training by an NRA (or national equal) instructor. However, the Mississippi DPS cannot read the law.

 

[mljdeckard]

It sounds horribly complicated to certify different flavors of instructors and permit holders in one state.

 

[pwhfirefighter]

Mississippi Enhanced carry

45crittergitter, help me out here. I just went to my required class for my enhanced permit today and the info from MS DPS states you do have to have the endorsement on your license for the new law to apply to you. Please direct to where you get the info that you DON'T have to have the endorsement, just trying to make sure I am getting the right info. Thanks for the help

Quoted directly from law:
"A person licensed under Section 45-9-101 to carry a concealed pistol, who has voluntarily completed an instructional course in the safe handling and use of firearms offered by an instructor certified by a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training, or by any other organization approved by the Department of Public Safety, shall also be authorized to carry weapons in courthouses except in courtrooms during a judicial proceeding, and any location listed in subsection (13) of Section 45-9-101, except any place of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1, any police, sheriff or highway patrol station or any detention facility, prison or jail. The department shall promulgate rules and regulations allowing concealed pistol permit holders to obtain an endorsement on their permit indicating that they have completed the aforementioned course and have the authority to carry in these locations."

Not trying to argue, just looking for some info.

 

[Gary Slider]

I would bet when they are published the ADMINISTRATIVE RULES will state just that. The Agency that has to administer the law will write the rules on how the law is to be applied. The way they are stating it you have to have the endorsement. I am also trying to find out more information on this and how it would apply to those carrying in MO with a permit/license from another state. MO Honors all other states permit/licenses.

 

[pwhfirefighter]

Mississippi Enhanced carry

That is kinda what I figured. I mean, if you are going to go to the trouble of getting the approved training, why not go ahead and go get the sticker? Avoid any possible problems, since the law does state endorsement on the permit.

I did find out today, in order to get the Mississippi endorsement, you must show up to the Highway Patrol office on the specified day for Firearms Permits for the station you go to (as listed on DPS website). Spoke to 2 different stations today. Also was told to bring training certificate and that there is no additional charge for processing for the sticker. If anyone has any other info stating otherwise, please share so all can have most up to date info.

OP, thanks for passing on all the info. I will keep looking and see what I can find on MS enhanced vs out of state permit reciprocation

 

[Gary Slider]

I just received an email from MSGT Williams Director of the Mississippi Firearms Unit. Here is the questions and email answers I received. Notice also how he states from a Certified Instructor. The law states a National Org or a Dept Certified Instructor. I don't make the rules but this looks like the way they will enforce the law.

My Email edited:

MSGT Williams,

There is a lot of chatter out there about how the law will be applied.
If you could answer some questions about it this would help those who Carry stay within the law.

Do Mississippi Residents have to have the endorsement or do they just have to have a card stating they have completed advanced training from an instructor?
People are stating they have to have the endorsement and others are saying they don't just documentation stating they have completed the advanced course.

What about Non Residents carrying in Mississippi? Can they obtain an Endorsement? If not if they have a signed card from a certified instructor is that considered the same as the Endorsement?

MSGT Williams Answer to my email:

Mr. Slider:

You must attend a handgun safety course taught by one of our DPS certified firearms instructors for the endorsement. The endorsement is affixed to the applicants current firearms permit. The endorsement is not required unless the applicant wants the endorsement(for Mississippi residents only). Certificates and/or cards are not accepted as substitutes for the endorsements. The Mississippi firearms endorsement does not apply to Non-Residents.

 

[pwhfirefighter]

Thanks OP for clarifying, that is what I was understanding to be the facts.

List of certified Instructors on MS DPS website with contact information. Several available scattered all over the state. At present, instructors are NRA certified, then they have an approval process with the state. Choose one from the list on the website and should be good to go.

Don't really understand endorsement not applying to out of state, if you receive equivalent or greater training. But in all actuality, our gun laws in MS are pretty good in my opinion. Could be better, but definitely better than a lot of states, IMHO.

 

[45crittergitter]

MS enhanced CCW endorsement process update

pwhfirefighter, you answered your own question:

Quoted directly from law:
"A person licensed under Section 45-9-101 to carry a concealed pistol, who has voluntarily completed an instructional course in the safe handling and use of firearms offered by an instructor certified by a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training, or by any other organization approved by the Department of Public Safety, shall also be authorized to carry weapons in courthouses except in courtrooms during a judicial proceeding, and any location listed in subsection (13) of Section 45-9-101, except any place of nuisance as defined in Section 95-3-1, any police, sheriff or highway patrol station or any detention facility, prison or jail.

Note that it does not require an endorsement on your permit to carry in those places. It only requires that you have the training and a permit.

However, it does provide for such an endorsement on the permit, for your convenience:

The department shall promulgate rules and regulations allowing concealed pistol permit holders to obtain an endorsement on their permit indicating that they have completed the aforementioned course and have the authority to carry in these locations."

Note that it does not require or allow the Department to promulgate rules about getting training or carrying - just about getting the permit sticker.

Sgt. Williams (who refuses to discuss the issue with me) and their attorney apparently haven't read the statute, and have created rules beyond what is authorized by the statute, such as allowing ONLY "approved" instructors (instead of statute-allowed nationally certified instructors), and instruction allowed ONLY after the date of the new law, and re-instruction with every renewal, etc. etc. Subverting the law is what they've been doing for the last 20 years.

FWIW, here's the latest scoop (this week) from the Dept. I don't think this has been through the legal public notice process.

Driver Services Policy: 15.001

15.001.01 Enhanced Conceal and Carry Endorsement

1. Pursuant to House Bill 507, which amended Mississippi Code Section 97-37-7, the Gun
Permits Division of Driver Services shall recognize individuals that have received advanced training in weapons handling and Mississippi laws relative to concealed carry with an enhanced endorsement. This enhanced endorsement shall only be given to an individual if they have taken and satisfactorily completed a course of the safe handling of firearms as given by a licensed and certified firearms instructor which has met the requirements of the Department of Public Safety ("Department"). The Department shall maintain a list of instructors which the Department has determined are certified within the meaning of current Mississippi laws relative to enhanced endorsements.

2. Instructors which desire to be recognized by the Department for the purpose of qualifying individuals for an enhanced endorsement must contact the Gun Permit Division of Driver Services and provide copies of their credentials as being certified to provide instruction by a nationally recognized entity that customarily offers firearm instruction or training. The instructors shall also provide contact information. They may be required to provide additional information in order to conduct a background check if they are not already a conceal and carry license holder registered in the State of Mississippi. There may be a background check fee associated with this requirement.

3. The instructor, after having provided the requisite information to the Department, will then be required to sign a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU). The MOU will contain, among other things, a requirement of at least one (1) hour of legal training relative to concealed carry and justifiable homicide as well as any other pertinent laws for the individuals that will be instructed for the purpose of the enhanced endorsement. When all information is submitted and the MOU is signed, the Gun Permit Division shall issue a sample certificate to the instructor that is to be given to the individuals that complete their respective classes. This certificate will be turned over to the Gun Permit Division by the applicant for enhanced endorsement, and shall serve as an indicator that the individual completed the required training to receive said endorsement on their conceal and carry permit. The Department reserves the right to contact the instructor named on the certificate to verify its authenticity.

4. The Gun Permits Division shall maintain records on the information submitted by certified instructors.

5. The Gun Permits Division shall maintain records on the information submitted by those individuals seeking and obtaining enhanced endorsements.

6. The Gun Permits Division shall affix a sticker to the individual’s conceal and carry permit that indicates that they have taken the requisite class and maintain an enhanced endorsement.

7. The recognition of the enhanced endorsement shall be valid for five (5) years. If they (sic) individual desires to maintain their enhanced status, they shall be required to take and satisfactorily complete another class from an identified instructor as denoted by the Department. If an individual desiring to obtain an enhanced endorsement submits their certificate of completion to the Department within three (3) months of the expiration of their existing conceal and carry permit, they will be recognized as having the enhanced status for the full five (5) year period of their renewed gun permit.

8. The Department maintains the right to revoke the enhanced endorsement of an individual for cause. If the Department determines that it should revoke the endorsement for cause, it shall notify the individual in writing and provide for a hearing on the merits with the aggrieved individual.

 

[pwhfirefighter]

Well 45crittergitter, we can agree that we disagree. You said get the endorsement for my convenience, I don't need the sticker to know I took the class, LEO's need to see the sticker to know I took the class. I think your trying split hairs I am not a lawyer so I can only take it at face value. Its says it gives the DPS the authority to come up with rules to obtain the endorsement for their permit, so they require the sticker. Seems to me the law gives them the right to require a sticker. I mean what is the big deal? The sticker is free after you take the class! I got the sticker after training, I can carry where the endorsement allows. And the sticker proves that I took the class. Leaves a lot less room for questions.

If indeed it don't have to have the sticker, as you see it, oh well, I am out about 1 hour of my life. No big deal. I am just glad to see what I think is a positive change to our gun rights. Good luck and stay safe.

PWH, over and out

 

[45crittergitter]

I don't think we are disagreeing - I was just pointing out the details. The only practical option to getting the sticker is to carry around your training certificate along with your permit, which of course Barney Fife will not recognize, since it ain't a sticker.