No more lead bullets

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HOWARD J

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If lead could no longer be used in rifle & handgun bullets---what would be used that would not harm the barrel & what would happen to the cost of ammo---any ideas?????????????
 
There are already non-lead bullets.

Just google "lead free ammunition" and you'll see the currently available alternatives.
 
Copper is certainly the most logical. They're already in use some places, but a massive shift of the entire industry to solid copper projectiles would likely cause a noticeable rise in ammunition prices, along with a rise in the already high spot price for raw copper.

I would like to see bullets made from HDPE. Think that would be interesting in large calibers, but not worth much in anything small.
 
Steel-core would be nice. The antis would go crazy with the unintentional consequences of banning lead and everyone switches over to AP.

Many hunters are already using steel shot.
 
@sam
I ran into a sale one time for those at Midway---little over $30
I heard they splatter when they hit something hard---I guess wood is not hard as they went thru 5 -- 3/4" boards before coming apart.

I only asked the question as I saw an article on AOL-Huff that groups are working hard to ban lead in bullets & the NRA/ILA has an article on it on their website.
 
I would start using zinc.

IF I could, I would pursue my idea of using a screw making machine or mini-lathe for turned copper or brass bullets- but man, those setups are pricey.
 
Sintered iron (bonded iron particles, soft) around a solid steel core, jacketed in copper... Germans almost went over to such, but with 'Tombac' rather than copper jackets............. latewar industrial changes like that wern't feasible...
 
handgun ammunition would probably be zinc due to the armor piercing ban. Cannot be solid copper/brass or have steel.

edit
I retract my statement, should have checked. I thought copper was on the list of banned substances but it is beryllium copper. Solid copper is an option.


(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
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Sintered powder metallurgy allows copper or copper/zinc to be "cast" in a form that wouldn't meet the criteria for AP.

Also, mild steel core wouldn't meet the criteria for AP either.
 
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I remember years ago reading an article about making bullets out of pewter. I think they were very lightweight in terms of actual mass and achieved some really high velocities. Any ideas what ever became of this and how feasible it might be today?
 
Modern lead free pewter is mostly tin. Low density, high price.

Zinc is probably the best bet for bulk bullets, although copper is pretty well developed for hunting and defense.
 
Moderator Note: Lets stay focused on the OP's technical question about alternatives to lead bullets and save the other discussions about antis and hunting and environmental questions for separate topics so they don't derail this one.
 
> IF I could, I would pursue my idea of using a screw making machine
> or mini-lathe for turned copper or brass bullets- but man, those
> setups are pricey.

A 7x10 mini-lathe and 2-axis CNC conversion would cost substantially less than a bullet swaging setup. Lathe prices have doubled in the last few years, but the rest of the hardware is much cheaper than it used to be.

Practical options are copper and zinc. Or lead, for that matter.

Without a bar feeder your production rate wouldn't be huge, but you'd be able to turn out any bullet you wanted - and ogive, any hollow point, any grease groove - with just a few tweaks.

A friend of mine will be going the mini-lathe route sometime this year. I've already made molds to cast lead blanks in various sizes, and I'll probably wind up doing the CNC conversion for him. Bob figures the outfit will pay for itself in less than a year, given the cost of "dangerous game" copper bullets and what he plans to be spending for custom molds for target shooting.
 
Solid copper would work but would be VERY expensive given the value of copper today (that could change though). Bismuth is used in non lead shotshells but I don't know if you could make a solid bullet from it. Lead is still the best thing we have come up with for bullets.
 
You could also go brass for machining, you could try aluminum ( hey, if I had access to a lathe and bar stock, I sure as heck would- don't say you wouldn'T)hell you could even try plastic for that matter.
 
Aluminum is not viable because it burns at relatively low temperatures and is also brittle. It also has galvanic reactions with certain other metals, copper included. It would clog the rifling like crazy and scratch up the inside of the bore as flakes shattered off, and also give off toxic fumes. Just a bad, bad idea.

What IS viable is osmium. Osmium has roughly the same hardness and density as lead, but is non-toxic. As such, it is one of the many alternatives to lead available in shotgun shells. The only question is how much it would cost.
 
I'm already using solid copper hunting bullets as my hunting loads. They do cost a little more, but outperform lead on game. Cost: Barnes bullets work out to $.58 each. The Hornady bullets I use are $.36 each, so it works out to about 22 cents more per shot. In the big picture I don't see an extra 22 cents to take a game animal as an issue. Not with hundreds of $$$ I already spend each year on gas, licenses, hunting gear, etc.

Anytime something is used in greater quantity the price will come down, and I expect lead to gradually increase in price. There may well come a day when the 2 are essentially the same price.

For guys who like to blow through hundreds of rounds in a range session things could get costly. I'd expect our habits to change. Instead of shooting thousands of cheap rounds, I'd expect shooters to slow down, shoot less, and learn how to make each shot count.
 
Instead of shooting thousands of cheap rounds, I'd expect shooters to slow down, shoot less, and learn how to make each shot count.
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That wouldn't work too well for most of us match shooters who both burn a lot of ammo AND for whom every single shot counts a great deal! :)

But if all you're trying to do is kill Bambi, sure who cares? Most anything will work for that, regardless of cost.
 
Osmium is pretty rare and pretty expensive so I'd be skeptical of it's practical use in bullets.
 
Spot price for osmium as of this posting is $380/ ounce.

Its also apparently sold as a powderish dust. Thats not very shooter friendly...

Theres finally a component choice that makes hevi-shot look cheap..........
 
If lead could no longer be used in rifle & handgun bullets
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Anyone need some fishing weights? Various sizes and weights--sold in lots of 500.
I only have enough for a couple dozen customers :)
 
I became concerned about the toxic effects of lead years ago and switched to depleted uranium. It's great. my .30 160 gr lee now casts bullets that weigh 250!
 
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Kirksite. (a castable moderately high strength zinc-aluminum alloy)

But realistically, I'll just use up my existing stock of lead bullets until they are gone. That'll take a long time ;)
 
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