No Wonder We Won!

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EddieCoyle

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I just got my first M1 Garand. I'm a pistol guy, but after listening to countless paeanistic diatribes by my releatives that carried the M1 into harm's way, I finally went out and got one. I figured they oversold the rifle; they didn't.

I bought 100 rounds of Korean milsurp ammo and took it to the range. I'm no crack shot, but after sighting it in, I was able to put 8 rounds onto a 3" diameter orange target sticker at 100 yards with the stock sights every time.

What a rifle!
 
The M1 is an excellent rifle. The Korean stuff is supposed to be corrosive, so make sure you clean it with water as most gun solvents won't wipe out the corrosive salts.
 
M.E.Eldridge said:
The M1 is an excellent rifle. The Korean stuff is supposed to be corrosive, so make sure you clean it with water as most gun solvents won't wipe out the corrosive salts.

Thanks for the heads-up but this stuff isn't corrosive. It's from the 70's. I've used it before.
 
Eddie-

Look at the headstamp on your ammo. KA is corrosive. PS is considered generally safe. KA was manufactured into the early '70's. If your stuff is corrosive, no worries. Just swab out the chamber, bore, and bolt with an ammonia/water mix directly after getting home from the range. M.E. was correct- solvent won't do the trick.

And you're right. Firing a good Garand is just about as much fun you can have with your clothes on!
 
I routinely drive through North Alabama. As soon as I can put $500 together, I think I'm gonna swing through Anniston and go to the CMP place to pick one of these guys up. I can see me looking back one day when the supply has dried up and kick the crap out of myself.
 
The M1 is quite a rifle. The advice you got on Korean is correct...PS is what you want...stay away from KA.

We won WWII because of natural reasources, industrial capacity and initiative at the senior and NCO ranks. The M1 didn't have a whole lot to do with it.
 
I couldn't agree more about the joy of owning and shooting a Garand. I remember a fellow THR member posting recently how it's a terrible military firearm...too long, too heavy, too much kick, and so on. But, back in the 40s, it indeed was a really fine choice for our "riflemen." And today, as I said, a joy to own and shoot.

We need a photo in this thread...here's my 1954 HRA (with CMP stock):

M1_Garand_HRA_Exc_with2GIs_800_DEC_9_2005.jpg
 
shllyshny said:
Look at the headstamp on your ammo. KA is corrosive. PS is considered generally safe.

Thanks! Fortunately, I've got the PS headstamped ammo.

Frandy, that is a beautiful stock. Is that one of the unfinished ones from CMP? If so, what did you use for a finish?
 
I'm no crack shot, but after sighting it in, I was able to put 8 rounds onto a 3" diameter orange target sticker at 100 yards with the stock sights every time.
That's pretty nice accuracy for a Garand.

Did you get a new Springfield or a better grade CMP rifle?
 
CMP US Service Rifle M1

I love the M1 Garand. Here is my Springfield, made in 1940. I hold this and feel the history. I wish it could tell me it's story...

PS - I shoot the Korean -06, and use Windex with Ammonia at the range, followed by standard cleaning, no problems so far. Gotta spend extra attention shooting corrosive ammo.

warhorse.jpg
 
I trained on the M1 in '62. In '66, as an Adviser to a ARVN battalion, I was issued an M2 carbine. It got wrapped around a tree and I borrowed an M1 from the ARVN and carried it the rest of that tour.

To those who say the M1 is too long and heavy, I agree -- when you're carrying it along with a PRC-25 radio, grenades, smoke grenades, poncho, rations, personal gear and water in 90-degree weather and 100% humidity, it is too long and heavy.

But you'd be amazed at how light and handy it gets when the first shots crack over your head.:D
 
M1 Buying opportunity - Reno, NV.

Thank you for your service to our Country, Vern! Great first hand account.

For those of you lucky dogs that live in Reno, NV - here is an excerpt of an email notice I received just today:

>>>
CMP AT RENO, NV GUN SHOW 11-13 AUGUST 2006. CMP will be present at the Reno show. We plan to bring with us a quantity of M1 Garand GK Field Grades, GK Rack Grades, GK HRA Correct grades, and some Danish Rack (Less Wood). We will also bring a variety of M1903 rifles. As for .22 cal, we will bring some Remington 541X, H&R M12, and Kimber Model 82. We will also bring two pallets of .30-06 ammunition. Current plans are to actually sell the rifles and ammunition on site and allow customers to take the rifles with them. Our ability to do this will depend on Internet connectivity and access to NICS. If our systems do not operate correctly from Reno, we will only reserve rifles and bring them back to Anniston, pending receipt of customer mail orders. To help expedite the process in Reno, we urge all who may be interested in purchasing at the show to make sure that their CMP files are current. If you are planning on purchasing a rifle at the Reno show, please email [email protected] and ask us to verify that you will be able to purchase at the show. Please use email and we will respond within 24 hours. We request you not call. If you have made a purchase from the CMP since July 2003, your file will be current for everything except possibly your club membership.
>>>

Get over there and get you a Man's Rifle!
 
After I retired, I hired a young captain who was getting out of the service. After he'd worked for me a while, I found he'd shot smallbore in college. I took him to a high-power match (he'd never been to one) and we drew an M1 and ammo for him from the club arms room. He'd never actually seen or held an M1 before, and the look on his face was something to see.

I couldn't resist telling him, "We used to have men in the Army, and they carried a man's rifle.":p
 
DMK said:
That's pretty nice accuracy for a Garand.

Did you get a new Springfield or a better grade CMP rifle?

I bought it from a guy locally. He got it from CMP. Here was his description:

"Springfield Armory, ser no 24,xxx. This was manufactured around June 1940. It's a typical GI war rifle, that is it's been re-barrelled and has a mixture of parts from being stripped and cleaned en masse, then re-assembled with whatever part was closest. Do not have throat or muzzle readings, but it seems to be in very good shape."

I must've lucked out or something because I shot it again today and had similar results.

But you'd be amazed at how light and handy it gets when the first shots crack over your head.

My uncles said pretty much the same thing; and when they carried it, they couldn't have weighed more than 140 lbs soaking wet.
 
Why not a detachable magazine on the M1?

The Browning Automatic Rifle was designed and used long before the M1 and saw action in WW1. The BAR used a detachable 20 round magazine.

The Thompson SMG also used a detachable magazine. Many guns of the era used detachable magazines.

The M1 came into service for WWII. I see the biggest drawback with the M1 was it's odd loading method and inability to top-off and it's "ping" when the gun fires it's last shot. All of these seem to be a significant drawback to the rifle.

Why didn't the design use either stripper clips with the ability to top off or, even better, a detachable magazine? That would have turned a very good rifle into an excellent rifle.
 
The M1 came into service for WWII. I see the biggest drawback with the M1 was it's odd loading method and inability to top-off and it's "ping" when the gun fires it's last shot. All of these seem to be a significant drawback to the rifle.

Why didn't the design use either stripper clips with the ability to top off or, even better, a detachable magazine? That would have turned a very good rifle into an excellent rifle.

While I would have given the Army some good advice about adopting a detatchable box magazine for the M1, there are reasons for the en bloc clip.;)

The quest for a semi-automatic rifle came down to a contest between two Ordnance designers, John Garand and John Pedersen. Pedersen was the senior man, and Garand was a transfer from the Bureau of Standards. In the normal rule of bureaucratic organizations, Pedersen would have won -- but his rifle (which used toggle lock like the Luger) could not adapt to the .30-06. So when MacArthur decided to abandon the .276 Pedersen cartridge and stick with the .30-06, Garand won. But Pedersen had to have a consolation prize -- the en bloc clip was his idea, not Garand's.

Now, to be fair, at the dawn of the smokeless powder era there were several theories of ammunition management for riflemen. The British liked a high capacity detatchable magazine (the early Lees were issued with two spare magazines.) The Americans were taken with the Krag Jorgensen outrigger magazine, which allowed topping off the magazine with the bolt locked on a live round. The Germans went with the Mauser stripper clip.

By an accident of history, both the Americans and the British went up against Mauser-armed enemies at the turn of the century -- the Spanish and Boers, respectively. The superiority of the Mauser stripper clip became painfully obvious. The Americans adopted what is basically a Mauser (the '03 Springfield) and the British greatly modified their Lee-Enfield to take stripper clips.

At that point, the issue was considered settled -- clip loading for rifles was the way to go. And, in point of fact, the en bloc clip is actually considerably faster than the stripper clip.

And the "ping" issue is a legend -- lie down outside grenade range, and let me shoot over your head. When you hear the ping, get up and charge me. I'll bet any amount you like you'll never make it to your feet. :p

And if I don't get you, someone else in my squad or platoon will.:D

The en block clip has three disadvantages -- it complicates manufacture, you can't mount a scope over the bore, and you cannot top off the magazine,
 
From what I've read, the "ping" being a significant disadvantage is way overrated. In the tremendous noise of combat, it would be difficult or impossible to hear. If heard, that would mean one fella is out of ammo for the few seconds it takes to reload but not necessarily the guy next to him. Anyone popping up to take advantage of such a situation would expose themselves to others whose Garands were loaded.
 
leadcounsel, there are significant advantages to the en bloc clip system. It is actually among the fastest systems for reloads. You don't have to remove a magazine, for example. When the last shot is fired, the empty clip ejects automatically and the bolt is held back waiting for the next clip. Just stuff another one in, which releases the bolt, stripping a fresh cartridge and returning to battery. Presto! With one simple motion (shoving a new clip in), the rifle is ready to resume firing.

And the M1 can indeed be "topped off" -- just eject the partially empty clip. It's no different that a box magazine in that regard. To top of either a detachable box mag or an en bloc clip, you have to remove them from the rifle (there are some exceptions of detachable box mags for rifles with stripper clips, but that isn't the norm).

Finally, think of the logistical simplicity of the en bloc system. You don't have to worry about troops trying to hang onto empty mags, or waste time refilling them. Just issue the ammo in the clips, as the U.S. did, and it's ready to go. The clips are cheap and easy to manufacture, which allowed them to be disposable. Box magazines typically aren't. They are more expensive, heavier, prone to failure due to dirt and corrosion, etc.

The only real compelling reason for detachable box magazines is the higher capacity, and that's only a significant advantage with full auto capability. Thus, their use on the BAR and Thompson. In addition, when assault rifles came along with their philosophy of a high volume of fire using a less powerful cartridge, detachable box mags replaced integral mags fed by clips.
 
Sidebar for all those who use Windex or ammonia compounds for cleaning after firing corrosive ammunition.

It works!, and, it works quite well. However, it works quite well because the main ingredient is water. Yes, that's right! Water! Water was the bore cleaner of choice for centuries. Some how or another, people decided that water was bad. It's not. The trick is to use hot water, boiling hot. This heats the metal to the point that the water instantly evaporates. Then, using the oil of your choice, (before 1923 the standard small arms lubricant was sperm oil), lubricate the bore to prevent rust.

Where this passion for Windex came from, I do not know. Obviously, Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett did not have access to Windex, and did not miss it. I seriously doubt that Teddy Roosevelt, Winston Churchill, Sergeant York, or Audie Murphy ever used Windex to clean their weapons.

The problem with corrosive priming is the salt left in the bore. The water dissolves the salt, and flushes it away. Then the bore can be protected with oil. Ammonia does nothing more. Using Windex is a waste of money.

:cuss: :banghead: :fire: :neener:
 
I'm no crack shot, but after sighting it in, I was able to put 8 rounds onto a 3" diameter orange target sticker at 100 yards with the stock sights every time.

I have one from Springfield Armory (1945 vintage) and an HRA Greek return (1954), and I was pleasantly surprised by the accuracy of both. The nice trigger has something to do with it, I'm sure. And the sights. And the long sight radius too.
 
Sounds logical, Grendel, but if I shoot any corrosive, I'll use the ammonia compound. Davy and Daniel may not have had windex, but they also did not have electricity, running water, or the Garand. My guess is they would have used them if available. Water alone may be good, but who is to say that a little ammonia mixed in isn't better? Do you use sperm oil to lube your weapon, or CLP? What I'm trying to say is that as times change, we improve on certain technologies. Damn... all this has given me a headache. Anyone got a leech?
 
beautiful rifles in the photos guys,thanks.
I love mine,while it is'nt as beautiful as the others shown,mine being a bluesky import but it shoots real well.I have a NM barrel in it now because I learned the hard way about corrosive ammo,what I used was made in France .

Im looking forward to when I can financially hit up the CMP,but the way its looking there may only be rack grades left by then:(

Save some for me guys!
 
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