Nordic Components AR-22 vs. Tactical Solutions AR-15 LT Upper

[Justin]

Does anyone here have any experience with both the Nordic Components AR-22 and the Tactical Solutions AR-15 LT Upper?

I've had the chance to shoot one of the Nordic Components guns and came away very impressed with it. Even with the stock Ruger barrel and trigger group, I was able to hit a small flash target at about 90 yards off hand.

I really, really liked the Nordic Components gun. However, I'd like to hear from anyone who's got any experience with the Tactical Solutions upper. The idea of having a dedicated upper that I can just slap onto one of my AR lowers holds a LOT of appeal.

So, from those with shooting experience with either or both of these setups, what did you think?

 

[ArmedBear]

Justin-

I don't think the Tactical Solutions rimfire upper, specifically, has been out for long. However, utterly similar products from other vendors (Spikes, Model 1, et al.) have been. AFAIK they all use the same modified Ciener bolt and a barrel with a .22LR chamber and no gas port, with the last 1/2" or so of the barrel turned down to fit into the bolt assembly.

In addition to a dizzying variety of complete rimfire uppers, Model 1 Sales sells the parts to roll your own, so I'm using their site for these pictures. But again AFAIK, all the vendors build something similar.

The barrel assembly looks like this (yes, headspace is kinda funky, but it works):

The bolt looks like this (slides in and out just like a "real" AR bolt ass'y):

I use mine (a Model 1 16" HB carbine with an A2 upper and A2 sights, on one of my regular lowers) for paper target practice at 100 yards. Works great. I've contemplated getting a scoped fluted bull barrel version, too, but need to save money for now.

Why I would get the dedicated upper:

1. The extra volume of the AR upper receiver allows for a LONG time between cleanings, since it would take a LOT of fouling to interfere with the operation of the thing. This is a good thing, since it's easy to go through a brick in no time flat. A drop or two of CLP to lube the bolt, and I just keep shooting. And shooting. There's lots of fouling, but it matters none. If you want to clean it at the range, it's easy, but if you just want to feed it brick after brick and pass it around to your friends, it works fine too.

2. I have successfully used the cheapest crap ammo I can buy from Wal-Mart. Lead, copper, "Golden Bullet" bulk packs. And I've used the good stuff. Accuracy varies, of course, but feeding is no problem either way. Works flawlessly with any of it, as long as I add a few drops of CLP from my range bag bottle when it gets dry. I sure as hell have never seen a 10/22 do that.

3. I'm guessing you have a few extra bucks in your lower parts and stock. You can leverage the investment with the .22, and the trigger will feel the same. All the controls are the same, so it's a true .22 trainer.

4. The magazine is IMHO far superior to the Ruger's. (I have the park'ed steel Ciener mag above, not the Black Dog.) The spring tension is very low, the thing is 100% reliable, and loading it is quite pleasant. My experience with Ruger mags is that reliability can be spotty and loading is a PITA after a while. Yes, you can get a loading tool for the Ruger. But I don't feel like I need one for the Ciener mag.

5. Cleaning is night and day better than with the Ruger. Cleaning the .22LR upper is like cleaning an AR without the gas tube. It's REALLY easy, you need no tools, there are no springs to wrestle with. Cleaning the magazine is like cleaning a skinny AR mag. Again, there's nothing to wrestle and you need no tools. Like an AR, you can easily clean the gun at the range if you want to.

There's only one complaint I have: no LSHO. That's it. ZERO other complaints from me.

I've had mine for a while now, have thousands of rounds through it, and I love it. If anything, the TS version may have a nicer upper receiver than mine. Mine has tool marks inside it. This has not had any impact on its performance, though, and at $475 complete and a one-week turnaround, I'm not complaining about the Model 1. If the Model 1 works and shoots well, the TS should be at least as good and maybe better.

 

[twofourthree73]

Another option is a spikes tactical .22 lr upper from spikestactical.com. Same as an AR upper. They have a nickel plated bolt and it's very easy to clean. I had mine to the range this weekend. 600 rounds of federal bulk through it and the only problem I had was a round that failed to feed because the feed ramp was fouled so badly at the end. I just pulled the bolt, wiped it down and went back to it.



here's a link to a thread showing the bolt and cleaning in greater detail.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=282&t=163180

 

[ArmedBear]

They have a nickel plated bolt

Sounds like a neat upgrade. Gun works fine with my parkerized bolt, but nickel would be even easier to clean.

In case I wasn't clear, I did buy a complete .22 upper in the configuration above. I didn't deal with headspacing. I just wanted to show what the innards look like.

 

[benzy2]

Is it more important to look exactly like and AR or to have another rifle? Personally I would rather have an AR and a look a like 22lr than to have a conversion upper for the AR. Something about having two rifles seems better than one. If you really want the look of the AR then there is no substitute for the dedicated upper. Other than that I personally think you should just go with another rifle and go nordic.

 

[ArmedBear]

It's not the look. It's the available components, the controls, ergos, etc. And the AR makes for a better .22 than a 10/22, in my experience. It's sure more reliable and more fun to shoot than my 10/22 ever was. Cleaning the .22 AR is sure a lot more pleasant, too.

Nothing stops you from throwing another lower together, either, if you want a "whole rifle." You just don't have to do that on the first day the thing comes in the mail.

 

[benzy2]

I have had just the opposite results when it comes to reliability. My .22lr AR conversion is the most unreliable firearm I have ever used. I quit using it because I couldn't get through 5 rounds without a failure. I don't know what you are saying is lacking in available components for either. Both are setup to have basically the same ergos and use the same parts. The safety is a little different and the charging mechanism is different. Beyond that they are pretty close. Again cleaning to me is easier on the 10/22 since the barrel came off with two screws. Nothing is stopping you from tossing on a full lower other than now you are in $800 to over a grand for a semi auto 22 depending on the furniture. If that isn't an issue for you then go for it. Personally I wouldn't spend that much.

 

[ArmedBear]

now you are in $800 to over a grand for a semi auto 22 depending on the furniture

Uh, how is the Nordic thingie any different?

Once you've paid for the 10/22, the kit, and all the furniture, and the parts you need to make the 10/22 reliable, how's it better?

I don't think 10/22 parts are not available. Obviously, they are. But a lot of people have a "built" AR lower with a $250 trigger, etc. Why wouldn't they want to leverage that and use it on their .22?

I haven't had and don't particularly want an AR conversion. The dedicated uppers are different.

 

[twofourthree73]

If you already have an ar the dedicated upper is the only way to go IMO. $5-600 for a basic upper. You can always add components like rails, vfg, sights as your budget and time allows, but for 5-600 you have a training tool that feels and looks the same as an AR and is much more reliable and accurate than a conversion kit. I'd say my AR upper is more accurate than any stock 10/22 I've shot. Not only that, if you want you can convert your .22 upper to 5.56. Just put a 5.56 barrel in it and a BCG and you've got a second fully functional AR in 5.56.

I could see one of the 10/22 kits if you already had a 10/22 as well. I suppose it's what you're going for. If you want something that feels and looks like an AR the 10/22 kit isn't going to cut it. They look like toys to me vs the true AR uppers. My opinion again, but that's why I went with an upper rather than buying just a 10/22.

 

[ArmedBear]

When you get the Nordic, you still have the 10/22 receiver (PITA to clean and gets fouled up too fast), the 10/22 safety on the front of the trigger guard (yuck!), the HORRIBLE bolt lock/unlock system of the 10/22, the 10/22 magazine and release design, etc.

The 10/22 is a mediocre platform at best, and hanging a bunch of crap on it to make it look like a military toy doesn't change that in the least.

 

[Justin]

AB-

Agreed to some extent. However, any time I buy a Ruger firearm, the first thing I do is replace most of the Ruger-made parts.

 

[ArmedBear]

I hear that.

I'll just say that, if the 10/22 barrel had been made with a threaded breech, by now nobody would even remember what the 10/22 was.

...which proves that cheesy isn't necessarily a bad thing...

 

[KingTiger]

The TacSol upper doesn't use Ceiner parts like most other conversions/uppers, which would make the decision easy for me if you've heard about their customer service. The Gen. 2 Blackdog mags hold the bolt open after the last round. My local SOT had one (not the LT) at the Silencer Shoot this past weekend and it appeared to run fine for many people demoing it. He's also an AR armorer and said it's construction & function blows away any other .22 scheme for the AR. It also cycles subsonics fine.

 

[twofourthree73]

The TacSol upper doesn't use Ceiner parts like most other conversions/uppers, which would make the decision easy for me if you've heard about their customer service. The Gen. 2 Blackdog mags hold the bolt open after the last round. My local SOT had one (not the LT) at the Silencer Shoot this past weekend and it appeared to run fine for many people demoing it. He's also an AR armorer and said it's construction & function blows away any other .22 scheme for the AR. It also cycles subsonics fine.

True. Spikes makes their own bolt though, so no worries about getting replacement parts from J Ceiner. I don't know about cycling subsonics though.