Norinco 97 Trench Gun

[Dave Markowitz]

Ever since I sold my Winchester 1300 Defender back to my brother I have been without a HD shotgun. No longer. There was a gunshow today in Valley Forge, at which I picked up a Norinco 97 Trench Gun.

For those unfamiliar with it (on this board?), this is a replica of the Winchester M-1897 trenchgun adopted by the US during WW1, and used at least through WW2. It has a 20" cylinder bore barrel and five shot magazine. As with the originals, it also has a perforated steel heat shield on top of the barrel, and a bayonet lug. M1917 rifle bayonets fit it. It also has 1-1/4" sling swivels. The only sight is a front brass bead.

The forearm and buttstock are made of decent American walnut with a smooth, matte finish. I don't know if it's oil, polyurethane, or what. The metal is blued and looks pretty good. Wood to metal fit is good but nothing to get excited about. The butt ends in a hard plastic plate.

The action is pretty smooth despite the one action bar and abundant machining marks inside the receiver. The gun was on display and may have been worked a lot. Like the original 1897s, the gun does not have a disconnector, so if you work the action with the trigger back, it'll fire as soon as it goes back into battery.

Unlike other new Chinese guns I've seen this one was not packed full of grease. I ran a wet patch through the bore and wiped it down with FP-10 but the gun was pretty clean. After that, I dug out the M1907 sling I kept when I sold my Garand. This is authentic, fits well, and just looks right.

One thing my dad and I noticed is that compared with other pump guns, the sound of racking the action seems louder. This is a Good Thing, IMO. Helps to increase the listener's pucker factor, ya know.

Range report to follow.

 

[Detritus]

maybe you can confirm or disprove a rumor...

The forearm and buttstock are made of decent American walnut

Umm just a note.... you MIGHT wanna check that (like take the but cap off and if the wood underlaying that is stained too chip through a spot on the finish)....

there have been a few reports (un confirmed either way by anyone i know) that the "American walnut" stocks ont eh Norincos are in fact NOT walnut but the same el-cheapo "apple crate #5" wood used on the older versions of the coach guns (same gun no heat shield/bayo lug) but stained with a dark walnut stain.

again i have not come accross anyone "in person" who has confirmed this one way or another, and toi make clear MY veiw, the examples i've seen all teh stocks seems to have some decent grain showing, whereas the old "Semi-POS, pulpwood" stock did not show any real grain and appeared painted.

but I have seen at least 3 three people on different boards report that they had dinged their "walnut" stock and discovered that the underlying wood was the soft, yellowish toned, wood found on the older guns.

So kind sir if you are willing...... would you be so kind as to somehow check on this, for your edification as well as ours, and report back to teh board??? If i had one to test (can't afford a bb gun much less a shotgun or i WOULD) i'd have the butcap off (ie a place REAL easy to coverup a ding or chip in the finish and checking for myself.

if not perfectly understandable, just thought i'd ask, and let you know about the rumor flying around...

have fun,

P.S. been thinking of getting one of these some time down the road, for my wife. she wants a "Military Shotgun" for reasons of her own. and it just seems like a REAL cool idea to get one of these and a 1917 Bayonet, and other "accutrements" and have "THE military shotgun"

 

[BigG]

I bought a Win 12 ga and you're right; that action closes up like a bank vault: CHUNK!! Hope you enjoy your new HD tool.

 

[Big Arm Hannigan]

I ordered one of those trench guns to use for Wild Bunch matches in cowboy action shooting. It got lost somewhere and hasn't arrived at my FFL. Really looking forward to it. Hope they locate it!

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Umm just a note.... you MIGHT wanna check that (like take the but cap off and if the wood underlaying that is stained too chip through a spot on the finish)....

I took off the buttplate and it looks like walnut to me.

I also heard the reports of some 97s being fitted with walnut-stained Chinese wood. I don't appear to have one of them.

 

[Detritus]

I took off the buttplate and it looks like walnut to me

cool, like i said been wanting to get ahold of someone who'd check THEIR gun directly....


This bodes well for my future purchases

 

[Checkman]

i purchased one of the "Cowboy" 97 models. I called Interstate Arms aand learned that my model is a third generation shotgun - sold to a distributor in July 2002. While the mechanical problems were ironed out by the third generation the wood is still the wood from China. The employee I spoke to reccommended that I purchase the walnut stocks for seventy bucks. I left a voicemail just a few minutes ago. I'm in Idaho and they are in Mass - two hours difference. So 3:20 P.M. is twenty after five over there.

The gun itself looks to be in very good condition. Yes there are machine marks visible inside the shotgun, but it has a very strong action - not difficult to work. Cleaned up very easily. Haven't shot it yet. I guess I'll have to break down and buy the stock.

Here are the numbers to IAC

1-800- 243-3006
Customer service Extension 131
Walnut Stocks Ext 119

Other phone number (not toll free) (818) 775-6900:banghead: :banghead:

 

[jsalcedo]

Aren't new norincos banned from importation?

The gun I saw recently had a nice walnut stock.

 

[Abominable No-Man]

I'm looking forward to hear how it handles. Fill us in when you find out, hey?

You guys aren't gonna believe this, but back in '91 during the tail end of Desert Storm, there was a backwater Air Force Reserve unit that went over there for a while. One of their security types was lugging one of those things around!

ANM

 

[Dave Markowitz]

ANM,

I will definitely post a report. I am hoping to try it out Saturday.

WRT to the AF guy in 1991:

 

[Checkman]

Well I took my 97 to the range last night. I fired about twenty No 6 rounds through it without any mishaps and five OO buck (Federal tactical - low recoil). The wood looks fine. The rounds feed without any difficulty. Extraction was very positive with the empties landing roughly ten feet away from me. You have to shuck the action with a purpose, but it's my understanding that the original 97s were like that as well until they were broken in. Watch that bolt though when it comes back.

Recoil is vigorous, but not intolerable. I think it has alot to do with the stock - which is modeled after the stock used on the early models in the late nineteenth century. But I'm a police officer and I don't find it any worse than my Remington 870.

The slamfire action is fun, but it is tough on the shoulder. Felt like I was in the Wild Bunch for a second.

I called IAC and they told me that if the stock should break they'll pay for any repairs or replacement parts.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I'm looking forward to hear how it handles. Fill us in when you find out, hey?

ANM, I posted a range report in this thread , in case you didn't see it.

In short, I ran 15 Remington 1 oz slugs through it. It fed, fired, and extracted all of them smoothly. However, the heat shield/bayonet lug walked off the muzzle under recoil.

I removed the heat shield today, degreased the end of the barrel and the inside of the heat shield where it clamps around the barrel, and put a bunch of ble Loc-Tite in between the two before reassembling. I'm hoping this'll keep the heat shield from walking off the muzzle end of the barrel.

 

[Detritus]

a simple suggestion in case the loc-tite does NOT work... (it's my understanding the loc-tite is heat sensitive, heat it up and it loosens up some)

this is a trick that a a couple of smith's i've know have used to prevent scopes from "walking" in the their rings on heavy magnum rifles (in a way it's sort of a mehod of avoiding having to do the more labor intensive job of "lapping the rings"). i figure if it works for scopes and rings it'd work in this app as well.

apply a very thin coat of like 5-minute Epoxy to ONE of the pieces you intend to join, in those places where they are n direct contact(in this case i'd say the last few inches of the Shield from the rear of the bayo-lug forward) and then (this is VERY important!!!!) LET IT COMPLETELY DRY AND SET!!! then carefully remount the shield. this provides a "grippy" surface between the two metal parts, kind of like adding one of those non-slip pads between a rug and a wood floor.

i can not over emphasize the importance of letting the epoxy coat completely dry before remounting the parts. because if the epoxy is still "unset" you'll wind up with the sheild permanently attatched to the barrel, instead of simply giving the mating surfaces a "grip" on each other.

like i said though, if the blue loc-tite works don't worry about it, but if the thing continues to slide forward under recoil... this might be a fix that would work.

 

[THA]

back in the late 60's when handgun scopes were just starting to become popular and noone had drilled frames, Bushnell had a scope mount which was a spring formed to fit around the top strap. They supplied a small vial of rosin with it to help keep it from slipping. I have used that technique on several other applications to keep parts from moving under recoil and inertial forces. It works. Best of all it is not perminant like epoxy. Just use lightly powdered rosin and it won't slip.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

Detritus and THA -- thanks for the tips.

Where does one get rosin?

 

[Detritus]

Best of all it is not perminant like epoxy.

just to be clear, If done properly (apply to ONE of the two parts in cantact.., let COMPLETELY dry, THEN re-attach parts) the above technique i mentioned. does not result in a permanent bond. it's just turns the dired Epoxy into a coating rather like a slightly more durable version of the Rosin from that Bushnell kit.

of course a thin coat of High Temp resistant RTV silicone, might do the exact saome thing, i don't know.

 

[BigG]

Rosin can be got at music stores for rosining bows.

I would think a coating of rubber cement on the ID of the ring, let set and put the parts together, it probably wouldn't slip. I would try that and it will come off later. HTH

 

[THA]

Maybe I spelled it wrong, but it is like said above used on musical bows and also in sports. It is the stuff in the little white bag pitchers use on their hands in baseball or rock climbers use in the little bags on their belts. Get the finely powdered kind. I bought a box at he drug store 30 years ago and still have it.