Not Content with going after guns, Schumer goes after model rockets

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Jeff White

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New York Times
July 30, 2003

Model-Rocket Bill Stirs Debate

By Eric Lichtblau

WASHINGTON, July 29 — At a time when Congress has been seeking to strip terrorists of potential tools, some lawmakers are pushing legislation that opponents say would do just the opposite by easing restrictions on explosives used in model rockets.

Legislation pending in the Senate would exempt some model-rocket propellants from toughened restrictions on explosives that were imposed by Congress last year in response to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The proposed exemption grew out of complaints from rocket hobbyists who said the new regulations would essentially ground them by requiring many users of model rockets to register with the federal government and go through background checks before using certain regulated explosives to launch their rockets.

But the effort to lift those restrictions is now drawing sharp objections from several lawmakers and from the Justice Department, which warned that one version of the legislation would give terrorists the power to hit targets five miles away.

Senators Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, and Frank R. Lautenberg, Democrat of New Jersey, standing alongside a seven-foot-high model rocket at a news conference today, said the proposal would allow terrorists to exploit a loophole to gather explosive materials used in numerous bombings.

"Why anyone in the post-9/11 world would think making it easier to get bomb-making material is a good idea is beyond me," Mr. Schumer said.

Backers of the exemption accused Mr. Schumer and the Justice Department of exaggerating the threat. It was an unusual reversal of traditional political alignments in the debate over how far the government should go to deter terrorism. The Democrats, who have cast themselves as strong defenders of civil liberties in that debate, pushed today for a more aggressive crackdown on terrorist tools, while Republicans emphasized the need to respect the freedoms of rocket hobbyists.

Senator Michael B. Enzi, a Wyoming Republican who has been the main advocate of exempting the hobby from explosives regulations, accused Democratic senators and federal officials of trying "to squash efforts to preserve a constructive, educational and important hobby enjoyed by millions of Americans."

Mr. Enzi said the Democratic effort to kill the legislation "doesn't make Americans that much safer, but it does make us more fearful and less free."

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, Congress and the Bush administration have moved to restrict numerous tools that they believed terrorists could employ, imposing new restrictions on overseas financial transactions, cellphone technology, carry-on items on airplanes, government Internet information and other areas.

Regulations imposed by Congress last year in the Safe Explosives Act restricted several chemicals used in high-power rocketry, including a propellant known as APCP and a compound known as black powder.

The Justice Department, in a June 10 letter declaring that it "strongly opposed" lifting the restrictions, noted that APCP is classified as an explosive and is so powerful that it is used in the boosters for space shuttles. The legislation as originally conceived "will harm homeland security by providing terrorists and other criminals with unrestricted access to rocket motors containing large amounts of explosive material, as well as to igniters and fuses that can be used to initiate explosive devices," wrote William E. Moschella, an assistant attorney general.

Since the Justice Department lodged those objections, Republicans agreed to a compromise limiting the amount of chemicals hobbyists can buy at one time.

Jorge Martinez, a Justice Department spokesman, refused comment on the department's concerns, and Mr. Moschella did not return calls. But Mr. Schumer said the department has told him it remained opposed to the proposal.

But Senator Orrin G. Hatch, the Utah Republican who leads the judiciary committee, said the compromise "minimizes the burdens on law-abiding citizens without jeopardizing the safety and security of our nation."

The new version was approved by Mr. Hatch's committee last month by a vote of 16 to 2, but Senators Schumer and Lautenberg have blocked the measure from coming to a full Senate vote without 60 votes, officials said.

In addition to the concerns about APCP, Mr. Schumer said he remained worried about allowing hobbyists unregulated access to black powder because the chemical has been used in bombs constructed by Theodore Kaczynski, the Unabomber; Richard Reid, who was convicted of trying to detonate a shoe bomb on a trans-Atlantic flight; and Eric Rudolph, accused in the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta.

Hobbyists, pointing to data of their own on the safety of model rocketry materials, said the senators were distorting the scientific record.

"These rockets can't be used as weapons," said Mark Bundick, president of the National Association of Rocketry. "They don't have guidance systems, they don't have enough payload, they don't have enough range, so to suggest that these materials could be used by terrorists is just untrue. And you cannot turn this stuff into a bomb."
 
....easier to get bomb-making material is a good idea is beyond me," Mr. Schumer said.
That is the major issue with you, Chucky. Intellegent reasoning thought of any type is way beyond you.
 
"Why anyone in the post-9/11 world would think making it easier to get bomb-making material is a good idea is beyond me," Mr. Schumer said.

He obviously has no idea just how much stuff "bomb-making material" encompasses. Maybe now the limit on quantities of sale-priced, 2-litre bottles of Mountain Dew can be federally enforced. :rolleyes:
 
Wait a Minute Schmukie, I mean Chuckie, didnt the 9/11 bombers use 4 commercial airliners? Didnt they buy innocent travel tickets to get their weapons? Thenthey bransihed box cutters

So why isnt there a law forbiding air travel??????, why not boxcutters, or how about if we outlaw all the sharp pointy things, except for your head?

OHHHHHHHHH I see now you like to fly on airplanes, but you dont like guns or model rockets.

Well that makes sense.

I dont like jackass democratic aholes like you and lautenberg, so why dont we just outlaw people named Schumer and Lautenberg?????
 
The new version was approved by Mr. Hatch's committee last month by a vote of 16 to 2, but Senators Schumer and Lautenberg have blocked the measure from coming to a full Senate vote without 60 votes, officials said.
How did they block it? Did they"threaten" to filibuster? Is that all they have to do threaten to now?
In addition to the concerns about APCP, Mr. Schumer said he remained worried about allowing hobbyists unregulated access to black powder because the chemical has been used in bombs constructed by Theodore Kaczynski, the Unabomber; Richard Reid, who was convicted of trying to detonate a shoe bomb on a trans-Atlantic flight; and Eric Rudolph, accused in the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta.
This is just a warmup to come after our reloading supplies and ammo.
 
capt.1059514621.rocket_security_wcap106.jpg


remember when a D engine was a big deal?

these babies are K engine powered!

http://www.tripoli.org/Photos/Photos_LDRS02.html
 
Bitting tongue...

:cuss: socialists!

Lautenberg and Schumer should be kibobbed on that rocket and sent off, just to prove the power of these "dangerous" toys.
 
Not Content with going after guns, Schumer goes after potatoes

New York Times
July 30, 2003

Potato Bill Stirs Debate

By Eric Lichtblau

WASHINGTON, July 29 — At a time when Congress has been seeking to strip terrorists of potential tools, some lawmakers are pushing legislation that opponents say would do just the opposite by easing restrictions so-called "spud guns."

Legislation pending in the Senate would exempt some spud guns from toughened restrictions on potatoes that were imposed by Congress last year in response to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

The proposed exemption grew out of complaints from potato hobbyists who said the new regulations would essentially ground them by requiring many users of spud guns to register with the federal government and go through background checks before using certain potatoes to launch their "spud guns."

But the effort to lift those restrictions is now drawing sharp objections from several lawmakers and from the Justice Department, which warned that one version of the legislation would give terrorists the power to hit sour cream factories five miles away.

Senators Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of New York, and Frank R. Lautenberg, Democrat of New Jersey, standing alongside a seven-foot-high potato launcher at a news conference today, said the proposal would allow terrorists to exploit a loophole to gather potatoes used in numerous bombings.

"Why anyone in the post-9/11 world would think making it easier to get potatoes is a good idea is beyond me," Mr. Schumer said.

Backers of the exemption accused Mr. Schumer and the Justice Department of exaggerating the threat. It was an unusual reversal of traditional political alignments in the debate over how far the government should go to deter terrorism. The Democrats, who have cast themselves as strong defenders of civil liberties in that debate, pushed today for a more aggressive crackdown on terrorist tools, while Republicans emphasized the need to respect the freedoms of potato-launcher hobbyists.

Senator Michael B. Enzi, a Wyoming Republican who has been the main advocate of exempting the hobby from explosives regulations, accused Democratic senators and federal officials of trying "to squash efforts to preserve a constructive, educational, important and, quite frankly, tastey hobby enjoyed by millions of Americans."

Mr. Enzi said the Democratic effort to kill the legislation "doesn't make Americans that much safer, but it does make us more fearful and less free. We do not need to be any more afraid of potatoes than Dan Quayle has already made us to be."

Since the Sept. 11 attacks, Congress and the Bush administration have moved to restrict numerous tools that they believed terrorists could employ, imposing new restrictions on overseas financial transactions, cellphone technology, carry-on items on airplanes, government Internet information and other areas. Thus far, potatoes have not been included in such descriptions of "terrorist tools."

Regulations imposed by Congress last year in the Safe Explosives Act restricted several chemicals used in spud guns, including the carbohydrates contained in potatoes, which can also be used to make vodka.

The Justice Department, in a June 10 letter declaring that it "strongly opposed" lifting the restrictions, noted that vodka is classified as an intoxicant, and is so powerful that it caused Senator Ted Kennedy to kill a staffer. Potatoes, particularly when combined with sauerkraut, are classified as
"flatulence-producers," and are so powerful that they are used in the boosters for space shuttles. The legislation as originally conceived "will harm homeland security by providing terrorists and other criminals with unrestricted access to spud guns containing large amounts of potatoes, as well as to chives and butter that can be used to enhance the potatoes," wrote William E. Moschella, an assistant attorney general.

Since the Justice Department lodged those objections, Republicans agreed to a compromise limiting the amount of potatoes that citizens can buy at one time.

Jorge Martinez, a Justice Department spokesman, refused comment on the department's concerns, and Mr. Moschella did not return calls. But Mr. Schumer said the department has told him it remained opposed to the proposal. "I know a spud-head when I see one," said Senator Schumer. "In fact, you're looking at one."

But Senator Orrin G. Hatch, the Utah Republican who leads the judiciary committee, said the compromise "minimizes the burdens on law-abiding citizens without jeopardizing the safety and security of our nation. I respect all Americans who eat potatoes, but we cannot live by potatoes alone. Some compromise, however ridiculous, is necessary in modern politics."

The new version was approved by Mr. Hatch's committee last month by a vote of 16 to 2, but Senators Schumer and Lautenberg have blocked the measure from coming to a full Senate vote without 60 votes, officials said. Senator Lautenberg added, "we now have a new rallying cry: remember the Idaho!"

In addition to the concerns about potatoes, Mr. Schumer said he remained worried about allowing hobbyists unregulated access to black pepper because the chemical has been used in meals eaten by Theodore Kaczynski, the Unabomber; Richard Reid, who was convicted of trying to detonate a shoe bomb on a trans-Atlantic flight; and Eric Rudolph, accused in the Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta. Other potato suspects include Mirlton Fleischer, who on several occasions dropped hot french-fries down the blouses of female employees, allegedly to watch their gyrations; Hermione Gringle, whose home--built from patties of hash-brown potatoes--collapsed on herself and her family; and Donny "The Dong" Gigante, who lured female victims to his apartment by pointing to his potato-loaded pants and saying, "yeah, this is the real thing, baby."

Hobbyists, pointing to data of their own on the safety of spud gun materials, said the senators were distorting the scientific record.

"These potatoes can't be used as weapons," said Mark Bundick, president of the National Association of Spud Guns. "They don't have guidance systems, they don't have enough payload, they don't have enough range, so to suggest that these materials could be used by terrorists is just untrue. And you cannot turn potatoes into a bomb, unless you're looking to bomb on the senate floor."
 
Is that PRNJ Sen. Lousenberg in the background of that pic? ?

Hey, I just got a wild hair in my....uh, hmmmm. I got an idea. If we could strap enough of those rockets together, and tied them to Sen. Upchuck, could we send him [one way, of course] to the moon ? ? ?
 
I'm going to buy another "assault rifle", just in the spirit of contempt for the vermin Schumer.

I'd buy a model rocket, but one expensive hobby is enough.:)
 
I for one, would love to stick it up his *&#*&@$$ and light the fuse!!! :evil:

Moderator, sorry if this is a little strong for this site, but this NUT CASE is getting out of control!
 
So let's sue Estes, because they make a product that could potentially be used by 'terrorists'...
 
Saw a rerun of "The Rock" on TV last night- one scene where Nick Cage asks if the BG remembers the song "Rocket Man"- before blasting off the rocket right into said BG and blasting him into the open air.

Hey Chuckie- remember that song?:evil:
 
Since when did UpChuck & Lousenberg ever let facts & truth stand in the way of [to their non-thinking] good, opressive legislation? ? ? ?
 
One thing for certain, without legislative or legal relief,
the high power model rocketry hobby will cease to exist.
Many of the vendors of rocketry supplies are going out of business.
And the next crop of aeronautical and aerospace engineers is going to be very sparse.
The terrorists have won. And our government aided and abetted them.

By the way, 'K' motors are in the middle of the high power range.
The largest commercial high power motor that I am aware of is an 'N'.
Some experimenters are building 'R' and 'S' size motors.

I am NAR High Power Level 2 certified, and can fly up to 'L' motors.
Or at least I could before the new regulations kicked in.
Being an apartment dweller makes it very difficult to get the Low Explosives User Permit (LEUP)
I now need to buy motors containing more than 62.5 grams of non-explosive APCP.
 
"It is unconscionable that two U.S. Senators would attack the legitimate interests of law-abiding hobby rocket enthusiasts without even getting the facts straight," said Mark Bundick, president of the National Association of Rocketry, and Richard Embry, president of Tripoli Rocketry Association, the largest hobby rocketry groups in America.

FACTS they make up their own.:barf:
 
‘This is a prime example of the government over-reacting to something that is not a threat," Embry said. "Children and adults alike have enjoyed this safe, educational hobby for more than 40 years without incident, and now all of a sudden we’re equated with terrorists. Reasonable regulation is fine, but these Senators are being wholly unreasonable, and the victims here are all the people across America whose hobby is being destroyed."

Well, Mr. Embry, now you know how gun owners have been feeling for the last 40 years or so. They're coming after you now, and you are the next "fringe group" to find out what the Statists mean by "reasonable restriction". It has nothing to do with reason, and everything to do with emotion. Think about that the next time these two clowns pimp their "reasonable" gun control laws.
 
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