BATFE extends its reach to rocket hobbyists

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Seminole

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This is an article in the Washington Times. If I had a nickel for every time that
some members of Congress say the actual regulations are too restrictive and are not what they had intended,
I would be a rich man.

Security law hits rocketry hobbyists
By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Model-rocket hobbyists must be licensed by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives before buying motors that are now considered explosives under a homeland security law.
The regulation was proposed in March and went into effect this week over the objection of some Capitol Hill lawmakers.
Federal officials say the new regulations apply only to a small segment of rocket enthusiasts ? those who use motors containing more than 62.5 grams of explosive propellant.
Bruce Kelly, spokesman for the Tripoli Rocketry Association, called that outlook "disingenuous."
"One hundred percent of large motor users are affected, and manufacturers, dealers and distributors will see a domino affect," Mr. Kelly said. "It's extremely excessive."
The Safe Explosives Act, part of the Homeland Security Act passed by Congress last year, set the regulations in motion and requires anyone purchasing or receiving explosives to have a license. It also affects farmers, construction companies, land managers and those putting on fireworks displays.
The new permit requires applicants to undergo a background check, be fingerprinted and photographed, and it authorizes warrantless searches of storage areas. The license must be posted and available for inspection.
The purpose of the legislation is to provide tighter security for explosive materials and those who purchase it.
However, some members of Congress say the actual regulations are too restrictive and are not what they had intended.
They asked the ATF to delay implementing the new rules regarding rockets but received no response, a Senate aide said.
Bradley Buckles, ATF director, was asked to delay implementation in a letter signed by Republican Sens. Michael B. Enzi of Wyoming, Conrad Burns of Montana, Michael D. Crapo of Idaho, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, James M. Inhofe of Oklahoma, and Norm Coleman of Minnesota.
"Using rocket motors to send their rockets skyward, hobby rocketeers enjoy a safe hobby and foster an interest in space exploration and science in participating youth," the senators wrote. "The implementation of permit requirements will make it difficult for this hobby to continue."
A spokesman for ATF said it could not delay the implementation date of May 24 because it was established by Congress in the legislation.
"We can't extend the law without a new law," said spokesman Tom Hill.
However, the public comment period on the new rules runs until June 13, and Mr. Hill said they will review whether changes are needed based on the comments they receive.
Mr. Hill could not say how many comments they have received specifically relating to rocket motors.
The permits cost $25 the first year and $12 for additional years, and can take 90 days to process.
People who bought fireworks before May 24 cannot lawfully accept delivery without a valid license, however municipalities are exempted.
Mr. Hill said at least 4,000 applications have been received for the new permits.
Mr. Enzi said some shipping companies have already decided to stop shipping all rocket motors, whether or not it is affected by the new rules.
"It will kill the industry," Mr. Kelly said. "I think a lot of things we are doing in the name of homeland security is not worth it. A lot of it is political correctness. It is more than an overburden, it is suffocating the industry."
A spokesman for Mr. Enzi said they will continue working legislatively to exempt certain model-rocket propellants, in the same fashion that antique-firearm users are exempted from permit requirements for using black powder.
"It would allow [hobbyists] to continue without having to jump through a bunch of hoops and red tape that was not the intent of the law," said spokesman Coy Knobel.
 
whats next....kiddie sparklers?to think as a youngster,building and flying model rockets was a science fair project..in grade school no doubt.this whole business has gotten out of hand.
 
model rockets

I’m glad they’re finally cracking down on model rockets and that unstable group of terrorists who use them. For years I’ve been concerned that one of these screwballs was going to launch a rocket and upon hitting the moon a piece would break off – fall to earth and destroy my home. I can finally sleep at night knowing this won’t happen.
 
Now you see don't you! THIS is the kind of crazy stuff that happens when we let ignorent politicians pass the laws. OOPS! I forgot-that is who ALWAYS passes the laws! (BYW, Ignorent and politician seems to be a bit redundant!)
 
From a buddy of mine who is into model rockets:


The article did make light of the cost factor by mentioning a permit is only $25 and renewal is $12. This references the LUP only and no mention of an LEUP's $100 and $50 renewal. It did also omit the fact that purchasers using their permits are still required to store their rocket motors in an Explosives Magazine. Nor did it mention that Explosive Magazine storage is costly and not possible for many. Even contingent storage is not easy.



Another item omitted from this and most articles I've read is the fact the LUP is only for purchases of "Explosives" aka rocket motors from a dealer residing in your residence state. This leaves out a whole lot of rocketeers. This one "provision" alone cripples the hobby.



I took a couple of hours off on Tuesday to read the docket of responses at the ATF. Mike, we filed suit against the ATF in 1999. Last year the federal judge upheld four of the five counts. We’re paying lawyers out the ying yang and the judge is sitting on the case. Senator Enzi introduced legislation to exempt composite propellant from ATF regulation. We have ten cosponsors, but we need to get through the Judiciary Committee first. Meanwhile there’s a federal marshal that’s making the rounds in Maryland to check all the LEUP (Low Explosive Users Permit) holders out. The Homeland Security Act will kill high power rocketry, because most of us don’t live out in the country where you have significant land to keep your magazine at least 75 feet from a structure/road.
 
I've never done it but from what I read, those estes engines make darn fine detonators for homemade explosives. They're just trying to quell the resources of militia types. No suprise.

Pretty soon the 'strike anywhere' matches will have to be signed for too.:rolleyes:
 
I understood that some model rocketeers make their own motors using FFFFg black powder. FFFFg is commonly known as "priming powder" used to prime the pan of flintlocks. After 9/11, large purchases of black powder was attracting the attention of BATFE-In-The-Belfry. I read on a couple muzzleloader forums that some guys got visits from the Belfry wanting to inspect the premises. "Well, the Arab terrorists have beards, Civil War re-enactors have beards, Mountain Man enthusiasts have beards!" was probably the justification. (The next solution from Belfry and Homeland Slowcurity will probably be to monitor the sale of mustache wax and beard trimming appliances. Mustache wax must be kept in a proper magazine and trimmers must not be electric.) Never mind that in mining, blasting powder (a variant of black powder made somewhat more explosive than firearms-grade blackpowder by varying the nitrate) has been obsolete since the advent of Hercules Powder, aka DYNAMITE, in the latter 1800s. Never mind that a dedicated wacko could steal dynamite from a mine (as some did not far from here back in 1999, making off with a whole magazine of it.) Yep, could be those model rocketeers have BEARDS, too, and that means they MUST be terrorists. Just like those Civil War re-enactors. (Well, of course! Some of them are wearing Confederate uniforms! See! Terrorists!) Well, soon enough, your days of unrestricted mustache wax purchases will be over, you terrorist sleeper cells. The sale of candles will be restricted to 1 candle per month to cut down on black market mustache wax production. Jews will have to bring a Rabbi to get Shabbes candles, otherwise, you can just forget exceeding your quota. Hey, the Chasidim are also bearded! Hmmmm.....more bearded people. See the connection? Back powder + beard= terrorist. The way to stop terrorism is to stop the sale of black powder and make it harder for people to have beards. See the logic?
 
Haulers blast federal Safe Explosives Act
By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — U.S. railroads have stopped transporting commercial explosives because of confusion over whether a new federal law will require thousands more background checks for those who handle materials ranging from dynamite used in mining to fireworks, industry officials say.

ATF officials say the law will require background checks on about 20,000 people, about double the number that is now required.

Rail and trucking industry officials say the law could be read as requiring checks on thousands more people, including commercial rail workers and truck drivers and virtually anyone else who helps to transport explosives. Some trucking companies have joined the rail industry in refusing to move explosives because of concerns about whether their drivers could be prosecuted if they have not undergone a background check.

"Nobody anticipated that commerce would stop," Heckman says. "In the name of homeland security, a horrendous amount of new regulations have been put on an industry that is already tightly regulated."

Haulers blast federal Safe Explosives Act

Hey, standing bear , you may be closer to the truth than you think.
Maybe our congressdork's could pass another law using the infamous "Interstate Commerce Clause" to block the other law they passed!

In a related story: Mayors across the country announced today that due to a shortage of fireworks, reruns of last year's Independence Day celebration will be aired on the 4th of July.
 
Sure glad I shaved off my beard! Actually, under the new Fed DOT regulations, all truck drivers will have to have criminal backround checks to get a HazMat Endorsement on their CDL. Wonder who's going to pay for that? It already costs me $60 to renew my license.
 
Good thing they're hurting those rocket hobby people instead of doing something crazy like fight real crime.

Afterall, ammunition and rocket engines both use some kind of propellant... rocketry is just a gate-way start to shooting! :rolleyes:
 
Hmmm, I have a couple handfuls of pre-ban engines out in the garage. I wonder if the value of them will skyrocket (sorry :D ) like the AR's did?

Greg
 
"They can have my beard when they shave it from my cold, dead face! "


Then they'd better bury me fast, and deep, 'cause I'm going to grow at least stubble back!
 
Pretty soon the 'strike anywhere' matches will have to be signed for too.


Just try to find these anymore. I buy them at gunshows.

Seems that they can be used to produce Meth, so retailers are pulling them rather than have LE harrass them about reporting those who purchase above some arbitrary number of these.

Where I used to live, the hardware stores had a flyer taped at the checkout counter from the local prosecutor's office asking them to report sales of "large" quantities of matches, muriatic acid, cold pills, etc. :rolleyes: :barf:
 
WTS/WTT PRE-ban Estes "D-12-5" engines.

These are HOT items....HOT I tell you. I have NIB three (3) engines from Estes. No yellow form...no ID...no paperwork...we do this one under the table, you know? These were manufactured before the ban...the Taliban (oh, sorry about that one).

I also have five boxes of strike anywhere matches...better grab them while you still can. I may also be persuaded to let my propane camping canisters go for the right price.

JEE-ZUS! This is absolutely nuts. I built rockets as a kid, and I still have most of them in storage. All kids like rockets, so what now?

-SquirrelNuts
 
get a handy dandy firework simulator kits..just 19.95!.it includes recordings of popping fireworks,1 strobe light an a handful of colorful plastic streamers to toss in the air.(clapping and crowd ohhs and ahhhhs are sold seperatly)again..this whole thing has gotten out of hand:scrutiny:.we bought our nephews several kits as bday gifts few years back for their father to get involved in building an enjoying the father/son activites.now i know why he cant find the rocket motors to replace them.i thought it was a fire issue or something,had no idea this was going on.:cuss:
 
Hmmm.... Maybe this law is my fault because when I was a kid I would spend way too much time gluing balsa wood fins directly to the estes rocket engines and then duct taping a Co2 cartridge (filled halfway with gunpowder) to the top. I just thought I was making some REALLY loud bottle rockets. I guess they were really terrorist devices to knock low flying planes out of the sky or something!?
 
Strike anywhere matches are easily available at grocery stores here in New Hampshire.

Until NH has a meth "problem."

Probably a booming market smuggling strike anywhere matches in from NH to the Midwest.
 
whats next....kiddie sparklers?
Too late. Most states outlaw some form of fireworks, and some even prohibit sparklers.
Why hasn't anyone suggested laws to repeal some of this crap?
I'd suggest it to my local rep if I didn't think I'd get strung up by 10,000 angry soccer moms.
 
Poodle, the fireworks ban was started because lots of idiots fired them off during drought season w/o regard to where they would land. Unfortunately, the standard response of holding those folks personally responsible doesn't apply because they are almost never caught and the damage they cause costs taxpayers and private landowners mucho dinero.

BTW, there is usually an exception for sparklers since they are always within the control of the user.
 
"BATFE extends its reach to rocket hobbyists"

Shouldn't that read "Congress extends the BATFE's reach to rocket hobbyists?"
 
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