Not very S-M-R-T smart! (on GB)

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If that guy had half a brain he would delete the pictures and kill the auction. :banghead:

Of course if he had half a brain he would not have put a forgrip on an unregistered AOW.
 
the grip is an issue.

There was somebody else in the past who did the same thing with a Keltec .223/5.56 pistol and everybody here suspected it was an ATF sting operation.
 
I take it that it's illegal to have a vertical foregrip on a pistol?

Since when? How is that significantly different from a horizontal grip?

Oh, sorry. I was asking that a gun law be logical, wasn't I?

Silly me...
 
There's several auctions I've seen which are/were blatently illegal. Wether the sellers are complete idgits or its the ATF, who knows.

Either way, it's certainly a good idea to know the gun laws in your state as well as federal, before you look to purchase a gun.
 
You see this kind of thing all the time. Many people fail to think legaly and think logicly. They see a bunch of legal aftermarket parts legaly sold for attachment to the rails on common platforms such as ARs and AK, and purchase and attach them.

There was even a recent thread in the autoloader section where someone was claiming an AR pistol was a great item, and one of thier listed reasons it was so great was the ease of such an attachment. They were obviously unaware that attachment of a piece of plastic to the accessory rail was manufacture of an NFA item, and such requires a tax stamp beforehand in addition to state law.

They don't realize that the exact same platform sold as a pistol is different than one sold as a rifle. That the long rail on the pistol of an AR pistol cannot have the commonly mounted things sold to attach to it.
In fact since the rail works as a forward grip itself it really is confusing that attaching a vertical grip to the horizontal grip is illegal. That is because the horizontal grip however is not a grip, because it is a rail for accessories and not for holding. Just like the magazine and magazine well often used as a grip are not a grip, but a magazine and magazine well just conveniently there to grip.

So many people are in violation. They are commiting serious felony actions punishable by many years in prison for illegal manufacture of an NFA item by attaching a cheap piece of plastic.
Since they are so blatantly commiting a felony action I am sure they would also support the loss of thier right to own a firearm for life.

Either way, it's certainly a good idea to know the gun laws in your state as well as federal, before you look to purchase a gun.
Do you know all the vehicle laws before you purchase a vehicle? There is books of them. The vehicle code of CA alone is massive, then you have federal regulations.
Should every person spend weeks becoming educated and up to date on all of them prior to purchase?

The reality is a lot more is expected of certain groups of people than others.
 
Well shoot, I guess this is why I hang around here. I knew what was illegal about that pistol when I looked at it, but if I had seen the auction not in a "NFA Where's Waldo?" situation, I wouldn't have thought twice.
 
Where could I find the law regarding this issue? I was talking with a buddy at work the other about this very subject and he said it wasn't illegal but I couldn't state where it was written, and i haven't been able to find it(not very internet savvy).
 
Pistol. A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm

Putting that drop down grip on it turns it into a short barreled rifle by definition.
 
So what about this, it is designed to be gripped with 2 hands isn't it?:confused:
 

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takhtakaal said:
Putting that drop down grip on it turns it into a short barreled rifle by definition.
It's an AOW.

ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment.

www.atf.gov/firearms/041006-vert_grip.htm
 
It looks like the guy has entered text in the description caption stating he has had several email complaining that it is illegal. So he's gonna sell it without the vertical fore grip attached
 
Has any of the gun control legislators actually tried to explain why this is illegal? I mean, how is it more dangerous to shoot from the hip. It seems to me that shooting from the hip is LESS dangerous as your not actually AIMING.
 
Well that is just weird cause i shoot my handgun (xd .45) two handed like just about everybody else I see.
 
Yep, vertical grip makes a pistol an AOW...and taking off a flash suppressor magically makes an AK American made...and a shoelace is a machine gun. Not exactly the kings of rationality (or constitutionality) we're dealing with here, y'know?
 
mr blove -- good one! That's what I hate about the "gripped with one hand" business. There are pistols (in shape, and which no one would argue are other than pistols) which it is *possible* to fire one-handed, but much nicer to hold and fire with both. (Anyone out there prefer to fire .357 from one hand, in a light gun? :))

timothy
 
PMITAP candidate said:
here is a excellent condition AK Creations pistol with CAA furniture. shot very little i have received many e-mails about the forward grip being illegal. so the forward grip is currently off the gun but will be included in the auction. i just have not gotten around to taking a new pic. if attached the gun would need to be registered with the ATF as a AOW.

Constructive intent? Hellllllllllloooooooooooooooooo??!! Heeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooooooooooooo??!!

Darwin was right.
 
Some people don't care if its illegal, just as long as they make the sale.

At a local gun show I noticed an AK pistol with a forward grip on a private sale table. When I explained to the seller why it was illegal he told me to go F myself. He could care less if some unsuspecting buyer went to prison.
 
He's changed the description.

I home "maximum mike" doesn't sent the storm troopers to his house just to confiscate the gun and not charge him (the KT ordnance treatment). Remember ATF stands for "Always Think Forfeiture."
 
Has any of the gun control legislators actually tried to explain why this is illegal? I mean, how is it more dangerous to shoot from the hip. It seems to me that shooting from the hip is LESS dangerous as your not actually AIMING.
Because the only exposure to guns the lawmakers get is through Hollywood movies, where the bad guys are 'spraying' back and forth from the hip, and you know those idiots in washington, if its in hollywood it must happen everyday "on the streets" so we must ban these evil "assault weapons" :rolleyes:
 
At a local gun show I noticed an AK pistol with a forward grip on a private sale table. When I explained to the seller why it was illegal he told me to go F myself. He could care less if some unsuspecting buyer went to prison.

Sounds like it could have been a sting.
 
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