NPR Story on Hearing Protection Act

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Flynt

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http://www.npr.org/2017/03/21/52095...rs-hearing-protection-or-public-safety-threat

FYI. It ain't perfect, but it appears to be an attempt to present a balanced discussion of the issue. I was particularly interested in the fact that the reporter went to SilencerCo in Utah and recorded the sounds made by unsuppressed and suppressed shots. (Try to listen to it if you can.) I'm so sick of reporters who dismiss the notion that these devices are not "silencers" but suppressors and the report is still plenty darned loud.

I wonder if we shouldn't also try to point out that if the bill were passed, suppressors would still be pretty expensive and you couldn't just slap one on any gun -- you'll need a threaded barrel. For me that's been a big deal; I've had to get a 10/22 barrel threaded and bought aftermarket threaded barrels for a couple of handguns.
 
I wonder if we shouldn't also try to point out that if the bill were passed, suppressors would still be pretty expensive and you couldn't just slap one on any gun -- you'll need a threaded barrel. For me that's been a big deal; I've had to get a 10/22 barrel threaded and bought aftermarket threaded barrels for a couple of handguns.

I'd hope that a legal requirement for threading the barrel would not be part of the law. There is at least one manufacturer of clamp on muzzle breaks, and I kinda figured that similar technologies would emerge for suppressors.

It seems foolish to allow the law to be written in such a way that adds hundreds of dollars to the expenses involved.
 
I'd hope that a legal requirement for threading the barrel would not be part of the law. There is at least one manufacturer of clamp on muzzle breaks, and I kinda figured that similar technologies would emerge for suppressors.

It seems foolish to allow the law to be written in such a way that adds hundreds of dollars to the expenses involved.
I'm sorry if I've confused the matter. I'm not aware of whether or not the bill requires threaded barrels. I would doubt it, but I'll defer to those who are familiar with it. I was just trying to point out something that I think is missed in the news coverage I've seen -- the fact that even if suppressors were taken out of NFA, all the boogey men out there wouldn't immediately go out and get a suppressor and commit a crime. Not every gun is going to be able to host a suppressor.
 
There's nothing about requiring a threaded barrel. That would make the integrally suppressed barrels still an NFA item. Not to mention that new Austrian suppressor that mounts on the accessory rail of the Glock. Kind of interested to see if that will be any good. There would be such a boom in new inventions of the HPA passes, I could see integrated suppressors on shotgun barrels being a fun one too, like an integrated Salvo and since its one piece you basically get a short barrel with a suppressor on it without any tax stamps.
 
I just read the NPR article, and was going to post it here when I realized that someone already did so. Honestly, that was a much more balanced article than I expected out of NPR. I'm not sure if this bill will pass or not, but this is probably our best (and only) opportunity to ever get a piece of legislation like this to the president for a signature. But, we don't have a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, so we could run into problems with the Democrats there... because, "guns are bad", and stuff. Sigh.
 
I noticed a distinct lack of mention that it takes 200$ and six to nine months to get approval for each silencer today until about halfway through the article, and I seriously doubt SilencerCo would fail to bring that up constantly (or better yet, that ridiculous photo of Form 4's going out before 41F). Despite the fact that *current* regulatory burden on firearm owners is *the* central aspect to any discussion of additional policy restriction or liberation. They also failed to mention that cans would still have to be sold through federally licensed dealers, not "left up to the states" as they suggest.

Anyone else think someone at SS was trolling them with the test gun selection? A gun as obscure & valuable as an XM8 is what they trot out as the generic "HK 223" for the sound comparison? It's not like any NPR-head would know anything about that weapon and how exceptionally rare it is. Methinks it was a subtle yet excellent test of their reporter's knowledge/affinity ("Holy cow! That's an XM8! Can I touch it, can I touch it!") Also "Heckler & Kotch," though I'll chalk that up to mispronunciation ("Heksgghler and Coke")
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"This act is reckless," says David Chipman, a senior policy adviser at Americans for Responsible Solutions and a retired 25-year veteran of the ATF. "And it's a threat to public safety."
Very odd, isn't it, and telling, that whenever any story has anything whatsoever to do with guns comes up, one of these professional talking heads from the same three anti-gun lobbying groups is always 'in the room' ready to chime in with a well-prepared rebuttal? We're usually lucky to get a half-baked unrehearsed answer from some random gun shop owner taken out of context as a 'counter point' when the story is about new gun control measures. It's not like the NRA/ASA/etc don't hand out business cards, they just aren't notified every time the 'unbiased' NPR is going to be publishing an anti-gun hit piece and asked to comment.

Data from the ATF show that silencers are seldom used in crime. From 2012-15, 390 silencers were recovered from crime scenes where an ATF trace was requested.
Anyone else think that number is really, really, really low? I mean, every month or so we hear about somebody getting busted for making a dozen silencers for gangs in a sting or whatever, so either the ATF isn't running the numbers on the guns at these places (seems doubtful), or local LEO aren't bothering to report the cans to the Bureau for some reason (or not tracking them). Heck, just last year or so there was that guy who got nailed making 100 untraceable junk silencers for 'special ops' ninjas at the behest of some crooked general; was that seriously one quarter of all unlicensed silencer seizures for the last few years? I think this stat may be like the "only a couple dozen people lied on their 4473" figure...

He's planning a similar demonstration for national lawmakers later this spring. And while he knows that the Hearing Protection Act might not be a legislative priority, given issues like health care and tax reform, Williams says he's optimistic that silencer regulations will soon change.
This *is* a tax issue, goobers. I refer of course to congressional Republicans and not the NPR folks, of course. It's only #7 most-viewed on the congress.gov site, clearly nothing but a in insignificant and unserious niche issue, unlike the serious business of;
-nationwide school vouchers
-removing caps on H1B & student visas
-terminating the EPA & Dept Of Education outright
-letting health-insurance companies (i.e. Uncle Sam) require DNA submission & documentation
-and most of all, Pete Sessions' "World's Greatest Healthcare Plan of 2017"
https://www.congress.gov/resources/display/content/Most-Viewed+Bills

Yeah, I can't see how they could possibly spare the time for us, either, when there are giant scary spinning dragons to tilt at over & over again.

That law [34 NFA] didn't prohibit the ownership of silencers, but it did make them harder to buy or trade by adding a $200 fee, creating a federal registry and making a longer registration process.
SS should really be pressing for a correction, here. The $200 tax was most definitely prohibitive considering Hiram Maxim's products were less than 10$ altogether at that time, and was the entire point behind the taxation scheme. There was also no "making a longer registration process" because no such nonsense existed before "creating a federal registry."

TCB
 
Listened to this yesterday - agree Flynt that it was a decent piece. Not the usual carping but the anti arguments were just talking points - the usual Rorschach test. I use suppressors all the time (I still can't abide the term "silencer"), especially with the kids. I hunt with them too (legal here). Great for hogs when there is the likelihood of multiple rapid shots. The stamp is what it is. Don't like it, but I don't like alimony either and I pay that!
 
I don't mind the $200 stamp and the background check wait. It's the trip to the Sheriff to get fingerprinted and papers signed that annoys me.
1. You can roll your own prints.
2. The sheriff doesn't sign a darn thing.
3. It's 2017 and the rules have changed.;)
 
1. You can roll your own prints.
Are you sure about that? I thought there had to be some "trusted entity" that certifies that the prints on the card are really those of the person on the application.

Losing the need for LEO sign off is a win for the new rules, but needing prints and photos of everyone in the Trust is a big loss.
 
Is the HPA going anywhere? It's beginning to look like fluff and spin from our side, "see what we're doing for you" type of thing. With that clear majority in place, you'd think it might go somewhere in 6 months.
 
Of course it's stalled. It's only millions of current/future can owners, billions of dollars, and the most-viewed legislation on congress.gov...

...we just don't merit the Important Peoples' time, is all

HPA.png
 
Don't hold your breath. I'm now convinced that we won't see any new gun legislation. The Administration has too much other stuff on its plate. Even otherwise pro-gun politicians don't want to touch the gun issue.

Still, the status quo is better than new adverse gun legislation.
 
If the guy that invented "suppressors" called them silencers, then I have no problems with people calling them silencers.
Hiram Percy Maxim, he also used the same tech to create car mufflers.
Of course the media will spin the narrative (whatever the H that is} but, facts are facts.
 
If the guy that invented "suppressors" called them silencers, then I have no problems with people calling them silencers.
I suggest a different term: "noise attenuators." Perceptions are everything. Neither "silencers" nor "suppressors" play well politically.

Suppressor proponents are on the horns of a dilemma: they can argue that suppressors are effective (therefore protecting people's hearing), and they can argue that suppressors are not effective (in silencing guns, and therefore are not a crime problem). These two arguments seem to contradict each other. How can we argue that they are both effective and ineffective at the same time?
 
These two arguments seem to contradict each other.

I don't agree. Here are some decibel ratings, unsuppressed, by caliber, and a chainsaw:

chainsaw - 100 dB
22LR rifle - 134
22LR pistol - 152
223 rifle - 155
30-06 rifle - 159
9mm pistol - 160

I picked a 'Gemtech Dagger' as a random 30 cal suppressor - it advertises 27 dB reduction, so putting one on that 30-06 leaves it just a 2 dB less than an unsuppressed 22LR rifle. If crooks are going to run amok with suppressed 30-06's, why aren't they running amok with unsuppressed 22 rifles?

But won't muggers put cans on their 22 pistols? Some of those can do a 40dB reduction - that 22 pistol would be down to 112 dB! But wait - that's still louder than a chainsaw. That's not really what most people call 'quiet'. Or put a 'Gemtech GM-9', with 27-30 dB reduction on your 9mm - also still louder than a 22 rifle.

In general, I expect crooks to use the same technology everyone does - they will use cell phones to make drug deals or for the bank robbery lookout, they will use the online obits to burgle houses while everyone is at the funeral, and poachers and burglars surely put those muffler thingys on their cars to make it harder to track them.

Suppressors might actually be the exception to that. There really isn't a lot of crime with rifles; 'gun crime' is mostly 'handgun crime', because concealing the gun until just before the mugging, as well as after the mugging, is important to muggers. The existing pistol cans make concealment a lot harder. Even if a mugger stole a pistol with a can attached, they might well remove the can so they can conceal it, I'd think. Guns like the silencerco Maxim might change that in time, I dunno.

But the bottom line is that crooks use things for evil purposes - cars, phones, the mail, scales, carving knives, etc. Kiddie pornographers use computers and cameras. Burglars use crowbars and gloves. We manage all those things by locking up the bad people, not trying to build a world where nothing can be misused. I submit that's the best policy for suppressors as well.

(lastly - suppressors are a lot easier to machine than guns. If you aren't doing rapidfire strings, you can make them out of aluminum. Anyone smart enough to cook meth is smart enough to make a suppressor. That implies to me that if crooks really wanted them, they'd already have them)
 
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