NRA exploiting Heller?

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Got a call from a nice lady from the NRA last night (what a coincidence!) with a recorded message from Wayne LaPierre she wanted to play me. I didn't listen because I'm still pissed at the NRA for initially trying to deepsix Heller. Wayne, if you're listening, don't try to make money off this or I won't be an NRA member any longer! You're either with us, or against us, you're not "with us only after somebody else's win".
 
It would have been wise for you to listen to what the man had to say. Your criticism of him could only have been more specific and more persuasive if you could actually refer to the content of the recorded message.
The way your post sounds is that you don't like the NRA/LaPierre and you will criticize anything he says--even if you don't hear it.
 
So you don't want the largest gun rights organization in the world to use this decision to their advantage?

Is this bizarro-world?
 
I didn't listen because I'm still pissed at the NRA for initially trying to deepsix Heller.

Odd that you are still mad when the actual lawyers who had to fight the NRA (Levy and Gura) have not only made peace with the NRA; but have stated publicly that their help has been critical on Heller.

For what its worth, according to Levy, the reason the NRA was worried about Heller was because they thought:

1) It would make it to the Supreme Court

2) The Supreme Court would give the wrong ruling

When you consider that it was a 5-4 victory and that one of the critical votes was an appointee who wasn't even on the Court when Heller began, you might not only appreciate the NRAs point of view - you might even be damn glad they tied up Parker/Heller in court long enough that some of the softer Justices were gone by the time Heller got there.

Finally, I'd note that the NRA and SAF (working together) are filing lawsuits in Chicago, New York, San Francisco and possibly Philly and Detroit today. Given what I've heard Mr. Levy discuss in the past, I would imagine they are at least being consulted on the matter as well.

Now if you still want to be mad at the NRA, it is certainly within your rights. You won't be the first gun owner to cut off his nose to spite his face.
 
Dude,

Newsflash.... We WANT organizations that fight for RKBA to have money.

You may not agree with some particulars of the NRA, but they ARE an asset to gunowners-- just like other RKBA organizations.


I seriously HOPE that they are exploiting Heller if it means that we keep momentium.


-- John
 
The Tribal Rifle Association would be happy to receive your donation as an alternative to the opportunistic NRA. PM me for payment information.
 
Odd that you are still mad when the actual lawyers who had to fight the NRA (Levy and Gura) have not only made peace with the NRA; but have stated publicly that their help has been critical on Heller.

For what its worth, according to Levy, the reason the NRA was worried about Heller was because they thought:

1) It would make it to the Supreme Court

2) The Supreme Court would give the wrong ruling

When you consider that it was a 5-4 victory and that one of the critical votes was an appointee who wasn't even on the Court when Heller began, you might not only appreciate the NRAs point of view - you might even be damn glad they tied up Parker/Heller in court long enough that some of the softer Justices were gone by the time Heller got there.

Finally, I'd note that the NRA and SAF (working together) are filing lawsuits in Chicago, New York, San Francisco and possibly Philly and Detroit today. Given what I've heard Mr. Levy discuss in the past, I would imagine they are at least being consulted on the matter as well.

Now if you still want to be mad at the NRA, it is certainly within your rights. You won't be the first gun owner to cut off his nose to spite his face.
Mr. Roberts has it right.

Alito replaced O'Connor who, towards the end of her tenure was barely a moderate on a good day. We squeaked by with a 5-4 ruling, and I think, FIVE YEARS AGO, when Heller was starting, O'Connor would have smacked this down, 4-5 against us.
 
Yeah, I got the NRA-ILA alert, all but taking credit for Heller.

Good to see them putting the decision to good use though. Hopefully, we'll see much more of that over the next 50 years.
 
Alito replaced O'Connor who, towards the end of her tenure was barely a moderate on a good day. We squeaked by with a 5-4 ruling, and I think, FIVE YEARS AGO, when Heller was starting, O'Connor would have smacked this down, 4-5 against us

Wait, so Heller was a bad idea?
 
welcome to politics. golden words of advice: make sure you hear what they are saying and not what you wanna hear; take everything with a grain of salt; most importantly....when you want to know their motives, follow the money trail.
 
DC v Heller Congratulations!

G'day everyone,......


Despite the narrow margin in favor of the second amendment as read and understood by most,...
I think it was a great decision and a major step in the right direction.
Now that there is momentum in the right direction it should be capitalised on.
I am very happy for you all with this decision.
True,..it would have been better had the result been 7-2 or better but as has been said,..be glad it was'nt the ther way around.
I hope you can take this outcome and take as much ground back as you can.
I wish you all the best of luck in such an endevour.

(I am laughing at what I am hearing of the anti's trying to regain as much so called credibility as thay can muster,.....)


Aussie.
 
Wait, so Heller was a bad idea?
I think you need to go back and read some of the previous posts.
It was the ability to delay Heller while some of the Judges were changed that turned it into a positive result.

Read that as the money - donated by NRA members and others to the NRA - and a pro-2A president,
is what allowed this to be a positive result. :banghead:

Here is a prime example of why NRA membership pays dividends,
even if you dislike some of the NRA's approach on other items.
 
I think you need to go back and read some of the previous posts.
It was the ability to delay Heller while some of the Judges were changed that turned it into a positive result.

Read that as the money - donated by NRA members and others to the NRA - and a pro-2A president,
is what allowed this to be a positive result.

You mean to tell me that the NRA's attempts to delay/derail Heller were calculated, because they knew the lineup of the SCOTUS was going to change before it was heard? Where did they get this information? Tarot cards? Palm readers? This argument is patently ridiculous.

On one hand, you have a poster justifying the NRA's actions as if "Heller was a bad idea," but apparently unwilling to say that. On the other, you have someone talking about money the NRA poured into this (which they didn't, Levy funded this entirely out of pocket) and then justifying the NRA's actions because they could see into the future.

ead that as the money - donated by NRA members and others to the NRA - and a pro-2A president,
is what allowed this to be a positive result.

Would you care to elaborate? What exact money had any impact on this decision? The NRA is taking credit where credit is not due, in my opinion. Levy and CATO deserve every single ounce of credit assessed. This decision occurred completely independently at best, and in-spite of at worst, the NRA-ILA.

And the Bush administration's amicus curae brief was NO FRIEND OF GUN OWNERS. So we can thank the NRA for that little slap in the face too?
 
Honestly, I am willing for forgive, not forget, but forgive the NRA on heller block attempts.

why? Because the NRA just used Heller to take a shot at chicago's gun laws.

Organizations make mistakes, but if they hit the courts fast and hard, I'll cut them some slack.

Now is NOT the time for various gun rights groups and individuals to cut on each other. It is, however, perfect time to start cutting away at a hundred years (think sullivan act) of bad gun laws with new legal ammunition.

this is our time to win or lose based on how much we choose to waste time and energy fighting among ourselves.

I am ozwyn, and this is not a paid announcement.
 
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Regardless of what has happened in the past. its the past. Yesterday was a great victory for all gun owners and the NRA. If it took this case to wake up the NRA then so be it. As we know now that the NRA is going to be persuing cities nation wide to make sure people have the right to own and bare arms by the 2nd amendment
 
NRA

I READ ALOT OF POSTS AND A CONCURING THREAD IS EITHER TO BASH THE NRA OR VOTE FOR SOME CANADATE THAT HAS NO CHANCE.MAY BE THATS WHY WE ARE IN THIS PICKEL.LOOK AT MASS,1,500,00 GUN OWNERS COULD CONTROLL THE STATE.BUT WONT VOTE.I know I will vote for McCain,not because I want to but because he will put in conservative judges.
look at the remarks of the SCOTUS judges. any of them know history of gun ownership.cannons were owned by citizens who had the money.and ideas were there to design multi firing guns.only holdup was no way to load them till cartridges were developed.altho the first gatlings used steel cartridges loaded like muzzle loader.:uhoh::rolleyes::D:fire:
 
The NRA was initially against pursuing the Heller case because the loses to our cause would have been steep if the decision went the wrong way. They jumped on board once conditions were right that there was at least an even chance of getting a favorable ruling from SCOTUS. Their position and change of position made very good long term strategic sense. Its unfortunate that a lot of supposed 'pro-gun' people and 'pro-gun' organizations only think about the here and now and have about as much long term vision as the toddler who throws a tantrum because mommy doesn't buy them a candy bar in the supermarket checkout line.
 
the Bradys are now asking for money to help defend the Brady Law. Everything is a fund raising opportunity.
 
While I'm annoyed with the NRA for apparently trying to take credit they are not due, now is probably a REAL GOOD TIME to POUR money into their and the NRA-ILA's coffers.

LA Times story

Gun advocates' other weapon: lawsuits
On the heels of the Supreme Court ruling, the NRA and other groups prepare to challenge gun laws in California and other states.
By Maura Dolan, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
9:05 PM PDT, June 26, 2008
Emboldened by Thursday's U.S. Supreme Court ruling affirming the right of individuals to own handguns, advocates said they would immediately challenge a San Francisco law that prohibits guns in public housing and sue other cities nationwide to overturn gun restrictions.

The California lawsuit, which the National Rifle Assn. said it would file in federal court in San Francisco today, was one of several legal challenges that gun rights groups said they would pursue in the wake of the court decision.



* Justices rule in favor of gun owners
Photos: Justices rule in favor of gun owners
* Graphic: Gun laws
Graphic: Gun laws

* Supreme Court affirms gun rights
* Blog: Obama offers a guarded response
* Blog: McCain hails "landmark victory"

"I expect there will be a significant number of California laws challenged because there have been a significant number of irrational and counterproductive laws passed in the state in recent years," said Chuck Michel, the NRA's chief attorney, who also represents other gun rights groups.

Hours after the Supreme Court ruling came down, two groups sued Chicago over its handgun ban, which is similar to the District of Columbia law the high court struck down. In addition, the NRA said it would file a lawsuit against Chicago today and would also sue surrounding cities that ban handguns.

"We are currently going over statutes at the local, state and federal level," NRA chief lobbyist Chris W. Cox said. "I am certain there will be challenges to all sorts of statutes as we move forward."

California, considered to have the most restrictive gun laws in the country, is a particularly attractive target for lawsuits by the gun lobby. Cox said the NRA was considering action against another San Francisco law that requires gun owners to store their guns in locked containers or use trigger locks.

Other California laws that gun rights groups plan to scrutinize include the state's ban on assault weapons, the permitting process for carrying a concealed weapon in Los Angeles and San Francisco, and restrictions in Los Angeles on gun retailers, Michel said.

Some lawsuits were prepared in advance of the Supreme Court ruling. "The decision today was not entirely unanticipated," he said.

He said gun advocates hope the lawsuits will lead to a broader ruling that the right to have a firearm at home for self-defense is not limited to places falling under federal jurisdiction, such as Washington, D.C. The high court did not decide that question, because the law affected only the District of Columbia.

Gun control supporters said they would vigorously fight the challenges.

Juliet Leftwich, senior counsel for the Legal Community Against Violence, a San Francisco-based lawyers group, said the group was putting out a call for pro bono lawyers to help fight the lawsuits. She said the help from outside lawyers would allow advocates to continue to push for new restrictions.

"We are concerned the resources are going to be diverted to the defense of laws already on the books," she said.

Leftwich said it was "an open question" whether the two San Francisco gun laws would be struck down. Thursday's ruling said government could continue to prohibit guns in schools and in government buildings, but also said that individuals have the right to keep guns for self-defense.

San Francisco prohibits any firearm or ammunition in buildings controlled by the city, including in its public housing projects, and its law on gun storage does not contain an exception for keeping a loaded gun in a nightstand, Leftwich said. Opponents could argue that the laws prevent individuals from defending themselves.

A spokesman for the San Francisco city attorney's office said he could not comment on any litigation until it was filed.

Kay Holmen, president of the California chapters of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said most California cities have some gun restrictions. The group rates states on a scale of 1 to 100. The higher the score, the more restrictive the state's laws. The group gave California a score of 79, the highest in the U.S.

California requires mandatory background checks on all firearm purchasers, limits handgun purchases to one a month, prohibits the manufacture and sale of guns that have not passed certain safety tests, requires handgun purchasers to obtain a safety certificate after passing a written test and performing a safe-handling demonstration, imposes a 10-day waiting period on purchases, maintains records of handgun purchases, and prohibits the sale of large-capacity ammunition magazines, among other restrictions, according to the Legal Community Against Violence.

The group said guns killed or injured more than 7,700 Californians in 2005, the last year for which it has statistics.

"Here in Los Angeles, not a lot of concealed-gun permits are issued," Holmen said. "We tightened the restrictions on guns here."

Holmen said she expected that an anticipated challenge to the state assault weapons ban would fail. "An individual has a right to own a gun, but that doesn't mean there is an individual right to own any gun," she said.

As the NRA prepared to sue San Francisco, its leaders also were looking closely at a law in New York City that restricts the carrying of guns outside the home, Cox said.

"The only people who have permits to keep a firearm for self-defense outside the home are the mayor's rich buddies from Wall Street, his celebrity friends and his political cronies," Cox said.

He said the litigation would show that the right to bear arms under the 2nd Amendment "is a right as sacred and special as the 1st Amendment, the 4th Amendment and any other amendment."

[email protected]

THIS IS THE SORT OF HELLER EXPLOITATION I CAN GET BEHIND.

:D
 
berettaprofessor:

You're either with us, or against us, you're not "with us only after somebody else's win".

Get in touch with reality. You did nothing to win the Heller case. Neither did anyone else here. There is no "us" on the winning team. It's not even possible for "us" to have been on it. Unless you are Dick Heller or one of his attorneys here under a makebelieve name to fool around with us, you could not have been on that team or did anything at all to help it.

The Heller case was "somebody else's win"--not yours. All you are doing is taking. By your strange way of thinking you must now be "against us."

The only possible exceptions are members of the NRA and other groups, some of which were assisted by the NRA, who filed briefs.

Otherwise the Heller case was developed, fought, and won by Dick Heller and his attorneys. They did the work and they paid the bills. This was their case exclusively. We were part of the audience.

As far as most gun owners--including you and others in this thread--are concerned, the Heller case was "somebody else's win."

You benefit from it but you didn't do it. You were on the sidelines. The NRA was in the fight to the extent allowed by Heller's attorneys and the circumstances. You criticize the NRA for not doing it soon enough for your tastes. But you did nothing at all.

I can't even imagine the thought processes that produce bizzare, destructive, and self-destructive claims like yours and some others I see here.
 
You mean to tell me that the NRA's attempts to delay/derail Heller were calculated, because they knew the lineup of the SCOTUS was going to change before it was heard? Where did they get this information? Tarot cards? Palm readers? This argument is patently ridiculous.

That's not how I read his point. The point made was that, yes, the NRA initially opposed Heller, and for some very good reasons that, had we not had a change on the court, would have looked brilliant in hindsight. So, while their opposing Heller now looks stupid, they DID NOT have a crystal ball, and, we can all admit, had O'Connor still been on the Court, may very well have been the correct action to take. It is very fortunate that they delayed it long enough for a more conservative Court to come along. Did they KNOW that would happen? Nope, it just worked out that way, but thank heavens it did.
 
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