Nutter defies '96 ruling by signing new gun laws

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Animal Mother

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Source: http://www.philly.com/dailynews/local/20080411_Nutter_defies__96_ruling_by_signing_new_gun_laws.html

Harkening back to the founding of America, Mayor Nutter and City Council yesterday challenged the state General Assembly on gun control.
Nutter swiftly signed into law five bills passed unanimously by Council, and compared them to the Declaration of Independence.

The state Supreme Court in a 1996 ruling declared that only the General Assembly has the power to regulate guns, tossing out the city's last effort at gun control.

"We have petitioned our government, but our pleas have been ignored," Nutter said. "We're going to make us independent of the violence that has been taking place in this city for far too long."

Nutter cited "bloody statistics": 74 homicides in the city so far this year, 56 committed with handguns and 1,734 people injured by guns last year.

The laws limit purchases of handguns to one a month unless the Police Department provides written authorization, make it a crime to not report a lost or stolen gun within 48 hours, allow police to confiscate guns from people considered a danger to themselves or others and ban semiautomatic weapons with clips that hold more than 10 rounds.

The gun-purchasing law will take six months to implement but the four others will be enforced immediately, Nutter said.

Councilman Darrell Clarke, who sued the state last year seeking the power to enforce local gun laws, said he expects to be back in court soon as a defendant in a lawsuit challenging the new city laws.

"We're beyond serious," Clarke said. "This is going to send a message that will probably reach national levels."

C. Scott Shields, a local attorney for the National Rifle Association, said the group would seek an injunction to stop the laws.

"It's sad they would do this because these are all patently unconstitutional. It's shocking," Shields said. "What if the city passed an ordinance saying you don't have the right to free speech within the city's limits?"

Clarke is hoping to provoke a re-hearing of the 1996 ruling by passing local gun laws and challenging the General Assembly.

David Kairys, a Temple University law professor and gun-control advocate, said that ruling left the city in a difficult position and that Nutter had acted responsibly.

"He comes into office and there's an intolerable level of gun violence," Kairys said. "He's responding to the violence."

Nutter signed the bills in front of three tables laden with handguns and rifles confiscated by police during crimes. He was joined by members of City Council, Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey and community activists.

Kim Stolfer, vice chairman of the Pennsylvania Sportsmen Association's legislative committee, called Nutter's action a crime and a political charade.

"I would like to see the mayor taken out in handcuffs for committing the crimes that they did," Stolfer said, adding that the city will rack up huge legal bills in a losing battle. "Who is going to pay for the lawsuit? Who is going to pay when they're wrong?"

Nutter brushed all that off.

"The wonderful thing about this country is that people can say whatever they want wherever they want," Nutter said. "That doesn't mean they're right or that it makes sense." *

So if your firearms are confiscated under this new law would the police be required to return them when the law is overturned, or would you be entitled to compensation? Could a person sue the City of Philadelphia for unlawful restraint of trade for restricting the sale of standard capacity magazines to citizens of Philadelphia and have a reasonable chance of winning?
 
How about "Grand Theft/Larceny Under Color Of Law" or something like that?

Not sure how it should be worded, but essentially, Police, City, et al stole your property, presumably under some local law, but in opposition to State/Federal law.

p.s. remove the last 3 letters from Hizzoner Mayor Nut(ter)'s name, and you have all the explanation needed........
 
Just another example of how government does what it wants, when it wants. The problem with our system now is the government doesn't have any fear at all of the people and it's rarely punished for breaking it's own laws.
 
"We're going to make us independent of the violence that has been taking place in this city for far too long."

Hang on. Let me wipe my bloody nose from laughing so hard.

I think these bills will be overturned before the ink dries. They seem very vague and open to several interpertations. None of which will decrease crime.

"He comes into office and there's an intolerable level of gun violence," Kairys said. "He's responding to the violence."

No. Responding to the violence would be enacting mandatory, long term sentences for criminals involved in violent crimes.
 
The laws limit purchases of handguns to one a month unless the Police Department provides written authorization, make it a crime to not report a lost or stolen gun within 48 hours, allow police to confiscate guns from people considered a danger to themselves or others and ban semiautomatic weapons with clips that hold more than 10 rounds.

[sarcasm] See? Reasonable compromise. [/sarcasm]
 
Wow.

Typical Nutter, a top-downer if ever there was one, and not just on guns -- and of the variety that likes to be *at* the top, doing the downing.

This stuff is too transparent to both responding to in detail. I would bother to explain to Nutter's email readers that this is one reason I look forward to leaving the city for good (except for future visits to friends) in 42 days, and spending many of the intervening days elsewhere as well, but as far as Nutter's camp goes, that's good news. Why would they want someone who'd vote against him around to do so? Better to drive people like me away, with high taxes and gun laws that favor (intentional) criminals.

Declaration of Independence, Ha -- maybe there's a category at the Pollies* for "Least Appropriate Posturing."

timothy


* There are no awards called The Pollies, but there should be. Little golden statue of a parrot, perched on a golden cow patty.
 
the only humorous thing about these 'laws' is finding the one judge in philly who will use every hoop and rollercoaster possible to find these laws don't violate the state laws.
 
allow police to confiscate guns from people considered a danger to themselves or others

This ruling opens the door to a Nazi-like seizure of anyone's weapons. Who determines what is dangerous? The police? Attorney general?
 
I wish PA could just cut Philly loose and let them become part of NJ where they belong. PA would be better for it and it couldn't make Jersey any worse.
 
Nutter swiftly signed into law five bills passed unanimously by Council, and compared them to the Declaration of Independence.

I applaud that Nutter and the Philadelphia city council for declaring the city's independence from the United States of America.

Here and now I call for recognition of the independent Nation of Philadelphia. It must be respected by us all because its people should have the right of self determination.

Philadelphia does however have some property belonging to the United States of America and our country should either receive immediate compensation for that property or declare war on Philadelphia. Since Philadelphia's citizens have been disarmed, there should be no resistance. It could be a desirable aquisition as a U.S. territory after it is turned into one large parking lot. From what I see on "Parking Wars," the reality television program that depicts the ongoing war of Philadelphia's city administration against its citizens, the place could turn into a good moneymaker if anyone wants to go there.

Until then the U.S. should suspend all foreign aid programs to the Nation of Philadelphia. Its citizens can return to their agrarian roots or simply issue parking tickets to each other. The Nutter in charge of that country probably can handle the welfare of all the nutters who elected him.

In any case the borders to Philadelphia should be sealed immediately so that illegal immigrants from there cannot sneak into the U.S. at night and take our womenfolk.
 
I wish PA could just cut Philly loose and let them become part of NJ where they belong. PA would be better for it and it couldn't make Jersey any worse.

No, thank you.

We're in the process of our own tea party over here.

Perhaps Nutter doesn't know where he sits. He could probably see Independence Hall from his office in City Hall, though the Constitution means very little to him and city council. Says volumes of their respect of our country's history. Perhaps Nutter would like to bring the crown back to Pennsylvania as well.

King Jon is closing Monmouth State Park site of the historic Battle of Monmouth during the Revolutionary War and Washington's Crossing State Park site of General George Washington embankment and assembly of troops after crossing the Delaware River on December 25, 1776.

I think they both will get a intense history lesson shortly.

Tom
 
That article can be easily summed up.
"We lost in court and we don't like it so we're going to do what we please anyway and who's gonna stop us since we're the big dogs!"

This is exactly the sort of behavior that illustrates WHY we must have a "last resort" because if folks like hizzhoner won't obey the law then we're down to who can apply more force <sigh>.
 
Ya know, the Philadelphia political machine simply does not seem able to generate candidates capable or willing to engage their problems in any substantial way.

All they seem to be able to do is find people willing to espouse the same old tired stuff that never works, and never will.

And furthermore, the voters of Philadelphia can't seem to figure that out for themselves.

Nutter's big crime plan is to bring in the guy who was top cop for DC?

Yeah, that plan worked really well for DC.

You've gotta be kidding.

And this is Nutter's "Plan A", the plan he got elected on.

Ultimately, there comes a point when a people of a given place have long argued and consistently demonstrated that they are incompetent to handle their own affairs, nor responsible enough be granted access to the levers of power, I'm really tempted to start agreeing with them.

The problem, of course, is that when people, such as children or senile seniors are determined to be incompetent, they are not allowed to do things like drive, vote, own property or have access to arms.

Is this infantilized future *really* what the people of Philadelphia want? Because they're pretty damned close to getting it.

.
 
Any cop who tries to enforce these laws could potentially lose everything he owns.

KNOWINGLY violating state law will almost certainly pierce his qualified immunity, leaving him open to suit as an individual.

There's a Norfolk, VA cop with a $100,000 suit hanging over her head for false arrest and a variety of other civil torts for falsely arresting a guy in violation of state preemption laws.

Anybody dumb enough to risk making his family homeless by enforcing these laws deserves whatever he gets. Too bad he'll be dragging the wife and kids down with him. But as they say in the Marine Corps, "Life is hard. It's a lot harder if you're stupid." In a similar situation, the Cleveland FOP were smart enough to tell the mayor to pound sand, and advised its members to ignore orders to enforce Cleveland's now invalid gun laws. We'll see how smart the members of the Philly PD are...
 
Why is it that these people never go to jail?

The city should sue him personally for any costs involved with legal hassles brought on by his actions.
 
Actually, I can see that the city’s aptly named Mayor Nutter has a good point. :what:

Clearly there is a problem. These guns are going out and killing innocent people and committing all kinds of “gun violence.” This needs to be stopped, and the answer is to go out and arrest all of these guns, try and convict them, and send the whole gang to the penitentiary. Make them serve a long term I say…!

There is a minor problem in that the slammer may be filled up with criminals, but the answer is to let them go to make room for the soon-to-be incarcerated guns.

Now someone might point out that it isn’t guns doing all of this violence, but rather criminals using guns. But that doesn’t matter. The ones that have been released will soon be up to no good, but we’ll all feel better knowing that the “gun violence” problem is gone and the community is truly safe.

Just like in Chicago and Washington D.C. :rolleyes:
 
4 out of 5 of the laws will be immediately overturned, but that doesn't make the council's or the mayor's actions illegal, it simply provides the reason why the people should throw them out on the street (not that they will).

Deanimator, no cop will ever enforce any of these laws before the courts have decided whether they violate state law (due to the waiting period before enforcement in all of the bills).



Nutter is actually a pretty good politician as they go in Philadelphia. This gun bill puts him in a corner because while nobody in the council thinks these bills are actually a good idea, they are a fantastic political tool. People in Philadelphia are really stupid and think we need gun legislation, but the city is restricted from passing any bill involving the lawful possession of firearms. So, the city tries to pass some bills, holds a press conference, denounces the state government, claims they are doing everything they can, and placates the idiots in city by doing something meaningless in practical terms. It's win-win for city politicians, and win-win for whatever lawyer gets to bill time on this matter, and only lose-lose for the people of Philadelphia and Pennsylvania for footing the bill.
 
I wish PA could just cut Philly loose and let them become part of NJ where they belong. PA would be better for it and it couldn't make Jersey any worse.

Would that not double the average IQ of the political leadership in the rest of PA and NJ?
 
If this isn't contempt of court, what is? What is the longest sentence someone can get for contempt of court in that jurisdiction?
 
I don't think you understand contempt of court. You could face contempt of court for something you do in an actual court proceeding.

Philadelphia's government has committed no criminal or civil offense by passing laws. Now, we should condemn them even more strongly if they knew that the laws were against state law, but that isn't necessarily true for all of the bills. Even if they did know, though, that doesn't make their actions a criminal or civil offense.
 
Maybe the state legislature can make some special rules for Philli.
Merge the PD to the SP and start arresting the city council for the stoopid attacks. Call the PC the city division.
 
Nutter signed the bills in front of three tables laden with handguns and rifles confiscated by police during crimes. He was joined by members of City Council, Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey and community activists.

And how many of those firearms were legally owned? How many of those would have been taken off the streets if the laws he just signed were enforced?

Here's my educated guess. ZERO.
 
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