NY hunters, Bow season and crossbows.

[Hookeye]

Two guys I know have the Ravin X bows.
They are not cheap and can shoot well out a ways.
They are different than the mid priced stuff, as far as capability.

But they still are shooting an arrow that arcs.
Rangefinder and shooting into a field, can be stretched out.

In the woods, seems to be a 30 yard and in deal for most regardless of arrow launcher.



Only hot rod X bow I messed w was the PSE Tac 15. It was long (decent power stroke) and heavy and awkward. They also had some issues with em.

My local pro shop is already getting X bow after X bow to fix, as it seems as though folks like to blow em up. Forgetting to put a bolt in, or trying a buds w wrong type of nock, or whacking the limb/cam on something.

Its so bad as to be comical, so many blow ups.

To be fair, the short axle to axle compounds w big wheels, people mess those up w a roll off now and then.

 

[Hookeye]

In my area a 20-50 yard shot with a crossbow or traditional bow is about all you can expect. Personally I think bow season should be open for anyone using any kind of non bullet projectile. Spear, bow, crossbow whatever. There’s enough tags and enough deer that even if a few more people used crossbows and tagged out there’s still plenty left for the regular bow hunters.

Crossbow would increase availability for handicapped/mobility impaired persons to have just as long of a season as everyone else.

In my state X bow was legal for aged or handicapped for years........before it became legal for anybody to use in archery season.
Suspect many states were that way.

This then old news.

And while some folks get uppity with trad gear, most don't shoot well enough to have such an attitude (IMHO).
Know some darn good shooters though.
And they are gentlemen.

There are tricks to trad, a fixed crawl and an ILF might help a lot of folks.
Here's a good flick explaining it............long but worth it.

Might help some that are struggling with trad. Even if you shoot good enough, I think the video worth watching, it's that well done.

 

[Hookeye]

So....i dont care if people use an X bow
Or bait.
If its legal, go for it.
But......don't complain if x bow usage ends up shortening the season.

 

[buck460XVR]

.




Warned people about this X bow deal, they didn't listen.

Well Hookeye, like you I watched Crossbows go from being scorned as a poachers tool to becoming the latest rage. But I have a hard time getting as angry about it as you.

I was there when the first "Allen" compounds appeared in the early 70s. Folks scorned them then as you do crossbows now. The use of them for hunting was going to wipe out the deer herd. Many states banned them at first. First compounds were what...35% let-off? Even once legal many sates banned anything with more let off than 50% for hunting. I think P&Y actually disallowed animals that were taken with compounds of more than 50% let-off, but I could be wrong. It was a long time ago. Back then we could shoot one buck a year(bow or gun) here and parties of 4 got an antlerless tag maybe once every other or every third yard they applied. Then they rel;axed it so you could shoot a buck with a bow and a gun and your bow buck tag could be used for a doe. Nowadays, even with the technology of today's compounds and the crossbow rage, I get two buck tags and 8 antlerless tags.....for free. More antlerless tags are available over the counter. So much for compounds wiping out the deer herd. Same with releases. They too were considered "cheating". So you practiced till your fingers got bloody or didn't practice enough 'cause your fingers hurt. I remember bow hunting in Minnesota in the late 70s when mechanical releases were still illegal to hunt with there....as was being in a platform more than 6' off the ground. Again, even with the best of technology, the deer herds are still growing and more trophy deer shot every year.

If I could still hunt with a traditional or compound bow I would. Handier in a tree and just as accurate and deadly as any crossbow. But with a release, is it any different than a crossbow? No. Has corssbow useage reduced opportunities for hunters? Not around here. Archery Season here lasts from early September till Mid-late January. It also runs thru the prime of rut. Gun season runs 9 days in late November, after the rut, plus a few days for antlerless and youth. Many figure 40-60% of the trophy bucks are taken during archery season. Crossbows have opened up a 1/4 of a year of opportunities to hunters that otherwise would not be in the field. Only a greedy/jealous person would call that bad. Those few folks that use a crossbow are no lazier than anyone that uses a gun. Probably less so. One still needs to get within 40 yards of their target, no different than with a compound.

Again, bating used to be illegal here too and was something looked upon as cheating and was considered poaching. Now it seems to be the norm for many, even tho the influx of CWD has made baiting/feeding illegal again in many counties. Yet, many still do it as the now consider it "ethical". Earlier this year the strong bowhunters association in the state tried to get the use of crossbows limited to the early part of bow season and illegal(except for 65+ and handicapped) during the rut. It didn't go, because the state did not see the use of crossbows hurting the population, only enhancing it by getting overall numbers to where they wanted. Overall archery kill was not inflated to levels the herd could not tolerate. They realized that the Bowhunting Association just wanted the rut to themselves, under the guise of "making it a quality hunt". I believe it the hunter than defines what is their "quality" hunt.

Used to be years ago, every time I heard a gunshot during gun season, I got angry cause I thought someone else had shot a deer and taken an opportunity away from me. Nowadays, I'm just glad I'm in the woods and can still hear gunshots.

 

[Hookeye]

Crossbows are pre cocked.
You have kids shooting em off tripods out of groundblinds.....yeah, they ARE different.

Even if some say they are not

Im not angry, just warning people that nothing comes for free.

More hunters and higher efficiency may shorten the reg archery season.

As for accuracy....there is less shooter input in an x bow and crunching nocks at 50 yards aint difficult.

The Ravin ads claim 3 " groups at 100 yards.

How many vertical bow shooters can ahoot a 6" group at 50, or 75 or 100 yards?

Any arrow is still slow compared to a bullet, but 300 fps to 400fps is a considerable performance gain on x bows.

 

[earlthegoat2]

From traditional, to a little less traditional, to old compounds, to new compounds, to crossbows.

The deer numbers are rising ever higher, the harvest numbers are going down (or staying the same) and the number of hunters are beginning to nosedive.

Heat seeking rocket launchers and drone mounted weapons could become legal and the numbers would still trend the way they have been.

Land access, animal rights groups, politics in general, and increasing perceived public stigma, among others, are problems facing hunting and game management. Not crossbows or rifles or bait piles or even poachers are real problems. The deer herds are way out of control. The game departments issue seemingly unlimited numbers of tags but only a few will ever get filled per year. I could shoot 8 deer in GA and 3 in MI but my freezer is only so big. My dad's 60 acres in MI got 24 deer taken on it last year by 10 or 12 hunters. No bait or food plots or any of that. There are a ton of deer and not enough hunters to shoot them.

 

[Hookeye]

Have not verified the cost of new string/ cables and change interval on the new hot rod x bows.

Speed costs money, how fast do ya wanna go ? LOL

 

[Hookeye]

If bowhunter numbers are dropping maybe x bow efficiency can make up for it in a management sense.

Do wonder how hunting shows and this covid stuff may affect how folks think about the outdoors.

Be interesting to see if we get a bump and if just temporary

 

[illinoisburt]

Have not verified the cost of new string/ cables and change interval on the new hot rod x bows.

Speed costs money, how fast do ya wanna go ? LOL

For 30 years it seemed like there was something new and better introduced every other season for compound bows. It's been about ten years since the last big innovations. Right now compound bows have fairly well plateaued around 350 fps with a somewhat light arrow. This is about double the power of recurves of similar draw weights.

Crossbow tech is not yet matured. New ideas making them cheaper, lighter, quieter, more compact and reliable are still happening. I suspect they will end up topping out somewhere in the 450-475 fps range in a 36 inch x 12 inch size range, weighing around 9 pounds similar to most rifles. Very effective 50-60 yard weapons, 100 would be pushing limits due to flight times and possibility of animals moving. Still for the majority of stand and blind hunters this is more than sufficient.

 

[buck460XVR]

As for accuracy....there is less shooter input in an x bow and crunching nocks at 50 yards aint difficult.

The Ravin ads claim 3 " groups at 100 yards.

Crunching nocks @ 50 yards with a compound ain't that hard either, and as for the 3" groups at 100 yards, not difficult on a stationary target with no wind. But a live animal in the real world? Even at 400 fps, there's a lot that can happen in the time it takes a bolt to go 100 yards.

I won't disagree that crossbows are easier to shoot and more accurate for the inexperienced archer. But that does not mean they do not have to depend on woodmanship and other hunting skills to get them within realistic crossbow range. It does not mean they don't need to go to the woods and put in their time. I've paid my dues years ago. Over the course of more than half a century, I went from long bows to recurves, to compounds and then back to recurves. Now I shoot a crossbow so I can still hunt during the archery season. I hunt during the gun deer season with handguns as my primary weapon and do not see the need to chastise those that use long guns. I don't see them as lazy kids in diapers just because they use a weapon that takes far less practice to be accurate and has considerably more range. Just hope they are close by when I need help dragging something out.

 

[.38 Special]

I wonder if the time-of-flight issue exists, for a certain type of bowman, any more than it does for the man who takes 700+ yard shots on game with his rifle.

At any rate, illinoisburt has written some good posts. I think the "skill" part of it does play a roll. A longbowman, for instance, may spend years developing his abilities so that he can extend his "comfortable" range to 30 yards. A tyro with a compound will shoot rings around him with 15 minutes of instruction. And the novice crossbowman will outdo both after no more than a once-through of the instruction manual. It's no wonder some folks get rubbed the wrong way.

 

[buck460XVR]

It's no wonder some folks get rubbed the wrong way.

Why? No one is telling them they can't use a crossbow. If they wish to use something that takes more practice and has less range, it's because they choose to. Or are they upset because some 12 year old girl using a crossbow, might get the buck they were after? Or maybe because the guy at work walked out with a crossbow, got a buck his first time out and now grinds it in at every break? Is this any different than folks that have used shotguns for years, that now have to compete with folks that can now use straight-walled calibers during shotgun season? How about the old fart that claims no-body needs more than a 5 round mag for hunting deer?

 

[illinoisburt]

Why? No one is telling them they can't use a crossbow. If they wish to use something that takes more practice and has less range, it's because they choose to. Or are they upset because some 12 year old girl using a crossbow, might get the buck they were after? Or maybe because the guy at work walked out with a crossbow, got a buck his first time out and now grinds it in at every break?

Maybe for a few folks, but as a whole not really. Or at least that wasn't the primary argument we heard from association members when the lobbying was going on 8 or 9 years ago. It really and truly was the serious concern about lots of regular gun hunters moving into the archery season with the result of tag limits and shorter seasons, especially in special hunt zones for bow season. Bowhunters like long seasons and OTC tags which might go away -- not just deer, but especially turkeys. There is a very real direct comparison in range and effectiveness of a shotgun and crossbow for turkeys.

any different than folks that have used shotguns for years, that now have to compete with folks that can now use straight-walled calibers during shotgun season? How about the old fart that claims no-body needs more than a 5 round mag for hunting deer?

I haven't heard any shotgun slug zone hunters complaining on any scale about straightwall rifles. They don't have a special early season or extra tags to protect. Instead this is much more akin to an early blackpowder only or handgun only season being lumped in with regular rifle season. There is nothing stopping you from hunting with a Hawkin 50 or 44 Blackhawk in the rifle season as it is, however they worked hard to set aside a few extra days (and tags) for their more challenging weapon and don't want to use regular rifles.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Maybe more akin to more primitive flintlock/percussion vs. inline With scope muzzleloaders.

I use a recurve bow and a crossbow. I use the recurve if I am still hunting and I use the crossbow if I am sitting in a stand. I’m glad to have both options.

I only have ever used an inline muzzleloader. There were never restrictions against them when and where I hunted so that is what I started out with. Being lefty makes the sidelock rifles a bit harder to find too so I am glad I was never legislated against in that regard.

 

[Hookeye]

Im not calling people names, there are very young people using x bow ( and firearms )

Im not cool w that kinda thing
Nothing wrong with killing, but it shouldnt be taken lightly and I doubt kids in kindergarten really know what is going on.

Nothing wrong with being an x bow hunter.
Lots of former vertical bowhunters have issues with it, still want to call themselves bowhunters.....to equate crossbow kills w those from wheels and trad.

Thats not a gear issue, imho its one of ego and or poor character

Nothing wrong with being an xbow hunter, or a has been bowhunter.
Ive paid my dues as well, shot for a shop, used to belong to 3 clubs at once and was doing 3d all over the state.

I cant stand bug dope anymore and afte turkey season i stay out of the woods til deer season LOL

There will come a time I cant use a bow.
Oh well.

I cant do a lot of stuff I used to. What the hell is one more?

 

[wombat13]

A lot of interesting perspectives upthread. I am a NY hunter and I can add a little background. Crossbows only became legal in NY a few years ago (no more than 5). Prior to that, the archery season began around the middle of October and the gun season began the third Saturday in November (still does). So archers had about one month, including the rut, which in most of the state peaks in early November. At the same time that NY was considering allowing crossbows, they were also considering a youth firearm hunt weekend during the archery season (kids 14-15 years old are allowed to hunt with a firearm). The bowhunters association was adamantly against both crossbows and the youth firearm hunt. My inference is that at least a considerable proportion of bowhunters were really just being selfish. They viewed it as "their" time and didn't want crossbow hunters or kids to get "their" deer.

NY settled on the following: Bow season starts October 1. Crossbow season starts the first Saturday in November. The youth firearm hunt is Columbus day weekend. I think this is a fair compromise. We need to do everything we can to encourage hunting or the sport will die. We need enough voters who are hunters or who have good memories of hunting to ensure that it remains an opportunity for those who wish to hunt. In this regard, the youth firearm hunt is a great step and anyone who doesn't support it is being short-sighted. Secondly, crossbow hunters only get 2 weeks, but it is a good two weeks. Finally, bowhunters get the entire month of October to themselves, except Columbus day weekend.

Also, this gives bowhunters two more weeks of hunting than they previously had. In NY, you can use a less advanced weapon in any season, so bowhunters can hunt any time any deer season is open. The seasons are:

October 1: Bows only
First Saturday in November: Crossbows and bows.
Third Saturday in November: Firearms, muzzleloaders, crossbows, and bows
10 days following gun season: Muzzleloaders, crossbows and bows. (Gun season runs 23 days beginning third Sat in Nov and ML season follows immediately).

So although archers have to share the woods with crossbows for 2 weeks in November, they gained two weeks of hunting in the first half of October (since the old days bow season opened mid-month).

 

[.38 Special]

A lot of interesting perspectives upthread. I am a NY hunter and I can add a little background. Crossbows only became legal in NY a few years ago (no more than 5). Prior to that, the archery season began around the middle of October and the gun season began the third Saturday in November (still does). So archers had about one month, including the rut, which in most of the state peaks in early November. At the same time that NY was considering allowing crossbows, they were also considering a youth firearm hunt weekend during the archery season (kids 14-15 years old are allowed to hunt with a firearm). The bowhunters association was adamantly against both crossbows and the youth firearm hunt. My inference is that at least a considerable proportion of bowhunters were really just being selfish. They viewed it as "their" time and didn't want crossbow hunters or kids to get "their" deer.

NY settled on the following: Bow season starts October 1. Crossbow season starts the first Saturday in November. The youth firearm hunt is Columbus day weekend. I think this is a fair compromise. We need to do everything we can to encourage hunting or the sport will die. We need enough voters who are hunters or who have good memories of hunting to ensure that it remains an opportunity for those who wish to hunt. In this regard, the youth firearm hunt is a great step and anyone who doesn't support it is being short-sighted. Secondly, crossbow hunters only get 2 weeks, but it is a good two weeks. Finally, bowhunters get the entire month of October to themselves, except Columbus day weekend.

Also, this gives bowhunters two more weeks of hunting than they previously had. In NY, you can use a less advanced weapon in any season, so bowhunters can hunt any time any deer season is open. The seasons are:

October 1: Bows only
First Saturday in November: Crossbows and bows.
Third Saturday in November: Firearms, muzzleloaders, crossbows, and bows
10 days following gun season: Muzzleloaders, crossbows and bows. (Gun season runs 23 days beginning third Sat in Nov and ML season follows immediately).

So although archers have to share the woods with crossbows for 2 weeks in November, they gained two weeks of hunting in the first half of October (since the old days bow season opened mid-month).

Thanks for that, Wombat. That all seems pretty reasonable to me...

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I wonder how many folks that whine about crossbows, sit over a bait pile?

That's an interesting thought.

Personally, I sit over my bait pile with my crossbow. Take that haters. lol

Seriously, I shake my head at people who think crossbows give some magical advantage. They're a little easier to aim, that's it.
There is no noticeable difference in effective range.
If the argument is that it isn't as traditional, crossbows were invented sometime between 7th and 5th century BC. That's pretty darn traditional.

As far as them being used as tools for poachers, I have heard that that was the case up North. I don't think that's the case here in the South. I think most lawbreakers here just use guns.

 

[daniel craig]

We need to do everything we can to encourage hunting or the sport will die.

This so much.

 

[illinoisburt]

This so much.

Another vote yes!

 

[Hookeye]

Bow season opens Oct 1 here. Urban zones Sept 15.
Personally I wait til about Halloween.

Too warm/green and less activity.

Get burned out, waste vac time.
Better to be fresh and hop in when things are hot.

No sense educating the deer/blowing them out hunting too early.
Have scored in the past early, but saw better bucks later.

Learned my lesson.

Patchwork areas, let the gung ho guys hunt hard and early and spook deer, let your unhunted spot become a sanctuary.
Then when Halloween hits ...........hunt
Got 2 weeks before gun season hits.

 

[Hookeye]

I screwed up my arm yesterday, decent burn on forearm.
Right where armguard would go.
I never use one unless wearing long sleeves.
And rarely hit my arm, even w recurve and dead tired.

However, I don't want the skin peeling off, or getting infection.
So silver cream it is and no bow shooting for at least a week.

An x bow I could still use LOL. Reg bow for now...........no go.