Odd numbers on Garand bolt

[Charger426]

Hi all.
Looking at purchasing another M1 Garand.
Purportedly all original 1943.
I have yet to see it in person.
My query is : What is the significance of the electro-penciled numbers on the bolt?
Do they detract from the rifle or enhance it?
There is no provenance to explain them.

 

[cfullgraf]

It is not normal and I do not know what is was for.

Does it match the serial number in any way? If so, maybe some armorer along the way wanted to keep the bolt matched with the rifle.

Since most Garands have gone through a rebuild at one time or another, a replacement bolt would not be out of the question and not negatively affect the value of the rifle. Maybe someone will know why the bolt was marked and it may have some value.

Some arsenal rebuilds have the legs of the receiver marked with the arsenal that did the rebuild. Some folks collect those rifles. My first Garand was rebuilt at Red River Army Depot and is marked RRAD on the receiver leg.

 

[Charger426]

No, the number does not match the serial number in any way

 

[lysanderxiii]

The rifle was lend-leased, or MAPed, to a foreign country that marked bolts to receivers, so the bolt was marked with a receiver serial number (or part of it).

Then on return to the US the rifle was overhauled, and our overhaul doesn't care about matching bolts to receivers, just as long as it headspaces correctly, so the bolt found a new receiver.

 

[Risky buisness]

It's getting very difficult to find all parts matching M1s, as lysanderxiii stated nearly all of these rifles have been to a rebuild facility and little to no care was taken to keep rifles all in one piece, as essentially each part is interchangeable with another. If the rifle is in overall good condition and the throat erosion and muzzle wear aren't really bad their should be no detraction from it. And my bet is, as previously stated the rifle was arsenal refit in a foreign country and it was a way to keep the bolts with there rifles.

 

[AlexanderA]

I agree with what the others have said, in explaining the number on the bolt. But as a collector, I would replace the bolt with an unmarked one, provided it headspaces correctly, and has a manufacturer and drawing number consistent with the rest of the rifle.

 

[Charger426]

Yes,
I was going to ask if replacing the bolt is an option.

 

[Jeremy2171]

Then it most certainly isn't "all original". No telling what all has been done to it...

 

[DukeConnor]

I like it and would leave it be. I buy these rifles because of the history associated with them and that is part of its history.

 

[Charger426]

True enough,
I'll have to get an actual hands on inspection of it

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

How honest are you, how savvy is your seller and is he a personal friend?

Circumstances permitting, you could claim that the electropencil markings ruin collector value (whether they actually do or not), giving you some pricing leverage if condition is otherwise acceptable. That might even be the truth.

Granted, even basic shooter-grade M1s are getting pretty darned pricey these days ...

 

[ilbob]

It is not normal and I do not know what is was for.

Does it match the serial number in any way? If so, maybe some armorer along the way wanted to keep the bolt matched with the rifle.

Since most Garands have gone through a rebuild at one time or another, a replacement bolt would not be out of the question and not negatively affect the value of the rifle. Maybe someone will know why the bolt was marked and it may have some value.

Some arsenal rebuilds have the legs of the receiver marked with the arsenal that did the rebuild. Some folks collect those rifles. My first Garand was rebuilt at Red River Army Depot and is marked RRAD on the receiver leg.

Would be my guess. Might have been a rifle tuned for matches.

 

[GooseGestapo]

It’s something of a cottage industry buying M1’s from the CMP and “matching“ parts in order to creat a “correct” , meaning “matching parts” to CREATE a collector grade rifle. You can buy 10 a year, no lifetime limit, or could...

That’s why provenance ie: CMP certification, is critical to value of a so-called “all original” M1.

I smell “scam”!

The last “original” Correct, M1 National Match I saw “in the wild” (not at collector shows) was in 1970. A tech working at Anniston Army Depot had “intercepted” it before being released to the DCM (preceded the CMP), and acquired it via DCM. I got to shoot it at a club shoot. Truly amazing Rifle. We were shooting ammo provided at the 1968 Camp Perry matches. I was able to put 10rds offhand into a 25yd pistol time-fire bull at 100yds. Not bad for a skinny 16yr old...

Caveat emptor!

Looking closer at the pics shows that it has a lock-bar rear sight. That is correct for a 1943 rifle. Doesn’t appear to hav3 been re-parkerized. What is the asking price?
Like another stated, barrel wear gauge will determine value somewhat.

 

[Charger426]

Here's a couple more pics:

 

[Charger426]

Asking $1600 USD

 

[Eugen]

When the Greeks 'borrowed' our M1903's they stamped the stocks and electro-penciled the bolts, among other things. Perhaps they did something similar to our M1 Garands.

 

[Slamfire]

I know the Italians and the Danes both serialized M1 Garand bolts with M1 Garand receivers. It took a far amount of searching to find an un serialized Italian bolt to go with my Italian receiver. I don't remember whose bolt had the serial number stamped, but I have seen that. Most of the serialization was with some vibrating or electro pencil device

I have a number of serialized M1903 bolts. We gave 03's to all sorts of Nations during WW2, and afterward. I saw a picture of Haitian troops with 03's, the Filipinos had them, and can't remember which Nationality it was, but I saw a picture which might have been a company of Mexicans armed with M1903's during WW2.

And this is one of those weird things. A serialized M14 trigger group. I got this direct from the CMP, and they got these from demilled M14's at Anniston Army depot.



A serial number on a bolt could have been put on in the US. Sometimes commanders separate bolts from rifles, and they have to come up with a way to match the right bolt with the right rifle. A serial number on a bolt means nothing. What is important is whether the bolt headspaces.

 

[Riomouse911]

OP, that is a nice looking Garand. I have no idea if it is worth $1,600, but it looks like a nice shooter.

These guns certainly are selling for a great deal more now then they did when I got my CMP rifle (2004).

Stay safe.

 

[S.Crockett]

Stock looks wrong. Did you have a close-up, clear pic of the cartouche?

Lots of "masterful corrector" types out there looking to rip people off by hyping a corrected M1 as an "original" or "unaltered" rifle from a certain time-period, especially WW2-era M1s.

And watch out for that Gun Show table thief who claims: "now that gun right there is an original Gas Trap M1 found in a cave on Guam three years ago. Won't take less than $50K fer it"

 

[Charger426]

No,
I don't have any more pics of the rifle.
Planning to try and see it this week.
I don't expect that it is "all original "
From what you all have said its unlikely to be unaltered.
It is in Canada however,
Don't know if that means anything.
Not many WW2 vintage for sale up here.
Breda Garands much more common.

 

[S.Crockett]

No,
I don't have any more pics of the rifle.
Planning to try and see it this week.
I don't expect that it is "all original "
From what you all have said its unlikely to be unaltered.
It is in Canada however,
Don't know if that means anything.
Not many WW2 vintage for sale up here.
Breda Garands much more common.

Well, if it's in Canada, and depending on where and how it was kept over the years, it could be more "unaltered" than you might think. Bring your camera or a good cell phone and take as many pics of as many parts as you can.