Off-duty officer shoots, kills gator in his backyard

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Desertdog

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I wonder; if this had been Joe Citizen, instead of a LEO, would they have dismissed it so quickly? I think they need to make it open season on any gator that is in somebody's backyard.

Off-duty officer shoots, kills gator in his backyard
Deputy says he acted in self-defense after gator charged him and a friend.
http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060610/NEWS/606100384/1006/SPORTS
By ANNA SCOTT



[email protected]

PORT CHARLOTTE -- An off-duty sheriff's deputy shot and killed an 11-foot alligator that charged him twice in his backyard Thursday night.

This latest incident of alligator aggression comes at a time when residents are on edge after an increase in deadly alligator attacks in the past few weeks in Florida.

Alligators are a protected species, and hunting or shooting them is illegal.

But the rising number of alligator encounters with humans has prompted the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission to look at alligator deaths on a case-by-case basis before deciding whether to press charges. Even the legal alligator hunting season was expanded this year from one month to more than two. It will run from Aug. 15 to Oct. 31.

"With the increase in alligator attacks and deaths in the state of Florida, we take each one right now and look at it really closely before deciding whether to press charges," said FWC Lt. Jeffrey Rebon.

In this case, no charges will be filed against Sarasota County Sheriff's Sgt. Clint Knowles of Port Charlotte.

Rebon said that Knowles acted in self-defense and used the gun without endangering anyone.

"He did everything correctly," Rebon said.

Knowles told authorities that the alligator climbed out of a canal into his backyard at about 7:20 p.m. and charged a family friend.

Knowles chased the reptile back into the canal, but the gator crawled out again just minutes later, according to a Charlotte County Sheriff's Office report.

He started to chase the animal a second time, but the alligator charged back at him.

Knowles fired at the alligator twice. The last shot, at the alligator's head, was fatal.

Knowles could not be reached Friday, but he told officers that he had the gun for protection and did not intend to shoot the animal.

He said he was afraid the alligator would harm his children.

Rebon cautioned that people should not shoot at alligators without a direct threat but should call the state hot line at (866) FWC-GATOR for help with a nuisance gator.

Outside of hunting season, only state-licensed nuisance alligator trappers are allowed to capture and kill alligators.

There are several theories to explain the rise in attacks:

May and June are mating months for alligators.

The lack of rainfall and higher temperatures have dried up some of the wetlands and forced alligators to go looking for new homes.

New developments have encroached on their natural habitat.

There are an estimated 1 million to 2 million alligators in Florida, but there have only been 351 recorded attacks on humans in the past 58 years.

Before the most recent fatal alligator attacks, only 17 deaths had been recorded since 1948, according to the wildlife commission.

In May, three women were killed by alligators in a week. One victim was a jogger whose body was found in a Broward County canal; one was snorkeling in a recreation area near Lake George in the central part of the state; and the other woman was found in a canal north of St. Petersburg.

In a May incident, an East Manatee woman used a pistol to shoot a three-foot gator four times after it entered her house's lanai. She was given a warning for hunting without a license. The alligator survived.

And a 74-year-old woman in Punta Gorda fought off an alligator with a garden hose after it bit her ankle.
 
I had some folks visit last week from Sanford Fl. They told me it's 4 women killed by gators this year.
If it had not been a sheriff's deputy shooting the gator and just joe citizen it would probably be trouble for the citizen shooter.
 
I wonder; if this had been Joe Citizen, instead of a LEO, would they have dismissed it so quickly?
Well, there's your answer:
In a May incident, an East Manatee woman used a pistol to shoot a three-foot gator four times after it entered her house's lanai. She was given a warning for hunting without a license. The alligator survived.
 
Well there IS a difference between 3ft and 11ft when we're talkin' gators :D.

I think the lady was lucky to get off with a warning. I know I would have just laughed if I'd found a baby like that in the kitchen :). Worst case shoo him out with a broom or something. An aggressive cat is much scarier and I've had to wrangle a couple o' psychokitties in my day.
 
I've been puzzled about that incident with the woman who shot the alligator on her porch -- or whatever they mean by "lanai." Florida's got a pretty good "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine" law, doesn't it? Does this mean alligators have rights that humans don't?
 
I know the officer involved and I know most of the FFWC officers in this area. This would have been handled exactly the same if it was a civilian.

The officer was scared. And to be honest, he's lucky. Most people don't survive the first charge, let alone have an oppertunity to defend themselves.

And a lanai (pronounced la-neye) is a screened in back porch that are on 99% of South Florida homes. And the lanai is considered part of your home in the castle doctorine.

You will also find that many animals in Florida have more rights than humans. Alligators, Bald Eagles, Ground owls, Goliath Grouper, Manatee, etc....
 
Gators

Jim March wrote:

>Well there IS a difference between 3ft and 11ft when we're talkin' gators.<
*****************

About the only real difference is in the amount of immediate damage. Wally Gator's diet pretty much consists of rotted flesh, which makes his bite one of the most toxic in the world. Septicemia and/or necrosis is a near certainty unless promptly and aggressively treated, and even then it's a risk for up to 3 weeks after the injury. A 3-foot gator can kill you just like a 10-footer...it just takes longer to die with the little ones.

The increase in determined aggressiveness is a sign that something is wrong in the swamp. Food supply is short...Territory is cramped...something.

On the "Protected Species/Legality" issue...Not advocating anything illegal, but in this case, Shoot/Shovel/Shut Up would seem to apply.
I won't risk my arm or leg, or that of my family, nor one of my dogs because some ugly lizard made the state's Bunny Hug list. I'll make the call if I have time, but I'll keep him covered and try to keep him contained until the Fish'n'Game man can make it. If I have to shoot, I'll take my chances before a district court judge. Even if I have to pay a fine, it's cheaper and easier than paying for a prosthetic leg or a lengthy
hospital stay while they pump gallons of antibiotics into my veins.

Sorry Greenpeace...I just don't buy into protected species laws that don't provide a clause for my own well-being. It's a damned reptile, for God's sake.
 
Tuner:

I was gonna post something along the same lines. I do understand that some factor is pushing these gators out of their normal habitats and forcing contact with humans; but that does not, in any way, shape or form negate one's right to self-preservation when the uglies show up on your doorstep.

You don't fault the guy or gal that had to kill the gator to save their own life, you fault whatever factors or whoever is responsible for pushing the gators out and into civilized territory in the first place. If it's all just simply due to nature, then that's nature for ya, the gator found someone a little higher up on the food chain than he was. It happens, mother nature has a hard heart.

Similarly, you don't tell kids they should succumb to child molesters because it is likely someone else's fault that they pedophile got that way (whoever molested them and thus started the pattern of behavior)...you tell your kids to run and f necessary, fight like hell.

Self-preservation is paramount, period; which is why I don’t blame animals for killing humans when we’re in their habitat. Sometimes there is no wrong or right, there’s just a struggle for life and death, at that point, all bets are off and politics and philosophies get set aside.
 
Tuner kinda nailed it...

There is no reason to Shoot/Shovel/Shut up with gators down here. They may be protected, but they are also a hunted species down here, with a lottery type drawing for a limited number of tags. Gators aren't protected species to protect them, it's that way to protect us. To stop humans from feeding them, which is almost a felony down here. The more contact they have with us, the better the chance of us becoming a food item.

Plus, any gator with human contact that is causing problems is immediately destroyed, all be it through the proper channels. That usually consists of reporting the animal to FWC, they contact a contracted trapper who relocates non-invasive gators and kills ones that are invasive on humans. (which is kinda backed up at the moment due to losing one our best trappers. He died of a heart attack while trapping one.)

Them showing up in ponds and canals isn't always due to human encroachment. Alligators will move from water hole to water hole given food or breeding oppertunities. That water hole may be a swamp, it may be a river, it may be the canal out behind your house. It's not always humans fault. And with the lack of rain we have had in the past year many natural ponds are drying up, so they are on the move to water, which is usually our canals. Us making these canals have provided habitat, not taken it away.

When you're on your property and an 11 foot gator is attacking you and you're firing your weapon within city limits, then you should report it. You were defending yourself on your property. Nobody down here is going to haul you to jail. This is a town riddled with drainage ponds, swamp, and both fresh and saltwater canals that are full of alligator. I can take you to our local Wal-Mart and show you a dozen gators of any size without leaving the parking lot.

The lady that was given a warning was given a warning simply as a political statement to the animal lovers that would have thrown a fit. Think about it, how much yearly gator hunting does an elderly woman do that you have to warn her not to do it again...
 
Points/Counterpoints

XDKingSlayer...Understood why not feeding the gators is a good idea. Same reason for not feeding the bears around Gatlinburg. Also understood about how gators migrate from hole to hole...but the recent influx seems to show that they're gaining momentum.

On the permit to hunt...How is it handled if one is shot in defense of life and limb if the shooter doesn't have the permit? Hunting out of season?

Understood about going through proper channels too, and have no qualms over that as long as there is time and opportunity...which often isn't present.
The people who have been attacked recently likely weren't aware that the ambush critter had'em on the screen, if they were even aware that a gator was close by. If time and opportunity isn't part of the equation, and my stalker is gator, bear, dog, Cougar, or rabid rabbit...I have a channel that's been proper since Dan'l Boone crossed over into Kaintuck...and a country boy can survive!:cool:
 
Tuner,
Great Posts.

I got a question since the habitat for the gators seems to be part of the problem.
I wonder if transferring some to PETA and Brady headquarters might be a better habitat. I mean PETA could have them as pets and protect them, and Brady could use as an example how compliance and being submissive works.

Just wonderin....:)



Steve
 
Point/Counterpoint

Had to pop off, but wanted to come back and respond to this one.

>The lady that was given a warning was given a warning simply as a political statement to the animal lovers that would have thrown a fit. Think about it, how much yearly gator hunting does an elderly woman do that you have to warn her not to do it again.<
************************

Sorry, mah fren. That dog won't hunt. I'm not particularly inclined to be politically correct to start with, and it really crunches my gonads to be forced to pander to the shrill protests of a few arrogant, unreasonable morons who have taken it on themselves to decree that people are less important than aggressive, dangerous predators that consider me an easy snack.

I think that the warning citation should be rescinded with all due apologies to the lady. The state's agents should have promptly removed THEIR alligator from her property, and thanked her for doing her bit to safeguard the community instead of causing her more undue stress. :fire:
 
XDKingSlayer...Understood why not feeding the gators is a good idea. Same reason for not feeding the bears around Gatlinburg. Also understood about how gators migrate from hole to hole...but the recent influx seems to show that they're gaining momentum.

On the permit to hunt...How is it handled if one is shot in defense of life and limb if the shooter doesn't have the permit? Hunting out of season?

Understood about going through proper channels too, and have no qualms over that as long as there is time and opportunity...which often isn't present.
The people who have been attacked recently likely weren't aware that the ambush critter had'em on the screen, if they were even aware that a gator was close by. If time and opportunity isn't part of the equation, and my stalker is gator, bear, dog, Cougar, or rabid rabbit...I have a channel that's been proper since Dan'l Boone crossed over into Kaintuck...and a country boy can survive!

Yes, they are gaining momentum. But it's because of the drought we've been in for the past year and a half. They don't want to be around us more than we want them around us, but they are running out of peaceful habitat because it's simply drying up. Our freshwater canals are full of water and food to include people and their pets. Believe it or not, the pets usually get hit more often than the humans, you just don't read about it.

And if you or me (read non-LEO) had to shoot a gator on our property in self defense, then you'll probably get the same as the little old lady, just a warning. And yes, I agree with you, she shouldn't have gotten that and deserves an apology. However, if you're out in the swamps, in the gators natural habitat, the story may have a different ending. I'm going to guess it's going to depend on the FWC officer if he writes you up and the State Attorney if they decide to follow through. I can pretty much say that here in the 20th Circuit, common sense will prevail, but I can't speak for the other circuits in Florida.

And people are going to continue to get attacked. Most bring it upon themselves. We had a guy killed last year because he thought swimming in his canal was a good idea. Turned out he was wrong and both him and the gator paid with their lives. Two years ago we had a lady grabbed off the tailgate of a truck. They were driving in the swamp, she and another person were on the down tailgate of the truck dangling their legs beneath the tailgate. The truck hit the gator that was in the puddle that nobody saw. It reached up, already mad, and pulled her off the tailgate. It's not the gators you can see you need to worry about, it's the ones you can't see. Those are the ones that get you.

They are very fast and stupid strong. If one already has you in his mouth the chances of survival are about nil. You're right on their bite, it's very septic and the infection will usually kill you anyways.

And if you think the gators are bad, you should have seen the freshwater crocodile we had wandering around one of our canals. They usually don't come up this far. She was a big one and a heck of a lot more dangerous than the gators.
 
Call me crazy but ANY gator in my sunroom that's not stuffed and wearing a funny hat is likely NOT an invited guest.

Kudos to the old lady. Reload her pistol and thank her for doing her duty.

PS an 11 foot alligator in anyone's back yard is more than a 'nuisance.'
 
Crocs

KingSlayer...100% in agreement. Crocodiles tend to be a lot more aggressive. If gators had the same temperament, Parts of Florida and Savannah Georgia would be under a state of emergency.

Wasn't crackin' on ya back there, bro. Anybody messin' with little children and old folks just punches a couple of my major hot buttons.
 
Ah. OK, I wasn't aware of the infection danger. That does put a different spin on it. I've been bit by all sorts of small reptiles, snakes, lizards, etc...didn't realize gators were different. Makes sense though. The lizards I handled as a kid mostly ate bugs and didn't go into water much...gators are a whole 'nuther thing I guess.

That said, *I* personally wouldn't shoot at a shrimpy gator. That's just me. But I now realize that dealing with one non-lethally is riskier than I thought (hey, I was born'n'raised in California :D) and it would be wrong to expect others to take similar risks.

--------

As to the 11ft beastie, yeah, that's a "shoot the moment it charges" thing, no question. And I rather doubt the cop got special treatment.
 
Dangerous Bite

Yep, Jim. But comparing septicemia to infection is like callin' a Cat 5 hurricane a windstorm. If you ever have the opportunity to enter a hospital room with septicemia at work, you'll know. It's a stench that defies description. Then, there's the necrosis...Meat literally rotting off the bone
with not much way to stop it other than cutting it out..or off. Nasty stuff.

The Komodo Dragon's bite is non-venomous, but so septic that it kills the victim within a couple of hours, and can immobilize in a fraction of that. All the lizard has to do is follow and wait until the end comes. If the bite-ee is lucky, the dragon catches up with it after it dies. If not, he starts on it while it's still alive and unable to move.

No need to shoot 3-footers anyway...A bush axe will make short work of'em.
Just stay away from the tail. They use that to knock ya toward the mouth.
 
If you cross the hunting comment with

stand your ground and the castle doctrine; does that make shooting a burglar man hunting?
Also, I'm not a hunter, but my impression is hunting involves getting out of the house.
 
herpetology was my interest B4 guns

Jim, always wash your hands after handling herps! yup, the word "herpes"
comes from "to crawl" in Greek or Latin (I don't know, I'm a gun nut not a linguist) so herpetologist refer to reptiles and amphibians as Democrats...oop's ...I mean ..."herps"
Anywho lizards and snakes hurt alot more people with the Ecoli that they get from slithering all over their own feces then from bites.
Like gators, moniters like the famous Komodo Dragon (oh how I want one)
can kill with their bites, if you look closely at wild Komodo Dragons you'll see chunks of decaying flesh stuck in their teeth (probably the same as John Kerry)...
I think Komodo's kill their prey this way and gators drown their prey ...but I could be wrong
 
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