Officer's ACP story

[ken grant]

Bought it from a guy whose father send it to Wilson's to be re-worked.Barrel,bushing,FLG rod,reverse plug,all internals,thumb safety,grip safety and Novak night sights.Got 4 mags---2 Colt 6 rd.---1 Colt 7 rd.--1 Springfield 7 rd. and the original barrel & bushing.
He told me it was done a few years ago.Must be right as the night sights are dead. His father lost the paper work on it.
Took it to the range and it was a Jam-o-matic with all the mags. All the failures seemed to mag. related.
Came home and changed mag. springs (WOLF) and went back. Did not miss a lick for about 100 rds. and then the ejector broke.
Put in a new ejector(COLT) and a new recoil spring as Wilson said to replace spring evey 300 rds. I didn't know how many were on the old spring and maybe it was weak and letting the ejector take to hard of a blow.
Went to the range today and I thought it was working fine except once in awhile you could feel a little click when going into battery.I was shooting well used brass from other 1911's and wasn't sure what was happening.
I shot some new ammo and it did the same. Picked up the brass and checked it.
The pistol was push feeding nearly every round.You could see the marks where the extractor jumped the rim.
Back to the workbench again! This is getting old!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[saltydog452]

Officer's Model tale of woe..

Send me your Commander Norinco, and I'll tell you to call....

salty..

 

[ken grant]

Norinco

SALTY,Tuner has first turndown on the Norky Compact if I decide to get rid of it
The way I am feeling now,it maybe soon. Getting discussed with problems from 1911's as well as from a M-14 clone I bought( FED. ORD., G.I. parts)
Not only problems but finding I can't shoot open sights anymore. Too old I guess(66)
I have trouble holding elevation on targets,windage no problem with rifles.
Tried several types of glasses but still can't see 6 o'clock hold anymore.

 

[Old Fuff]

Ken:

You're still a wet-behind-the-ears kid ...

As you know, Tuners 1911's work. So do mine. But after you shorten them back more then Commander length they start getting fussy. Tuner can make the sub-compacts work. I usually don't bother. The only thing that I can think of that might help (and maybe you've tried) is a EGW firing pin stop. I'm not sure, but I believe that current or recent-past Colt ejectors are MIM parts.

About the sights. I feel for ya. Try this trick, because it worked for me. Open up the width of the rear sight to about twice what it is now. You want a sight picture where the line of white on each side is almost equal to the width of the front sight blade itself. Will accuracy go to h--l? I think you will find that it doesn't, as the front sight will center itself in the wider rear notch. When shooting be sure to focus your eye on the front sight. The rear sight and target will blur, and they should.

 

[ken grant]

Sights

Thanks for the advice,old Fuff,I know all this but I am hardheaded as well as old.
I don't have much problem with pistols as I can move my head around and get a good sight picture(Have problems holding tho )
Rifles are where I am having problems with sight picture.Can't tell when I have a 6 o'clock hold right. Elevation is driving me crazy! I can hold windage O.K.

 

[1911Tuner]

Push-Feeding OM

Ken mah fren! I feel yer pain. Some of those little buggers can drive ya 'round the bend. I'm like Fuff...I don't like to fool with the
cussed things, and generally pass on'em except when a friend asks me for help...and then he's gotta buy the ginger ale. The main reason that I started workin' on'em again was because I heard that some smifs charge a king's ransom to make one behave. (See what you started Salty?)

The push feeding/snapover probably isn't a mag problem any more until the last round in that 7-round mag. That one's still got that slick Devel/McCormick follower. Since the 6-rounders have the speed bumped follwers...and you've done the Wolff spring deed...It's probably the recoil spring. If yours has dual springs, try clipping a half-coil at a time off the INNER spring, for a maximum of a half-coil below fluch with the outer spring.
That was my final tweak on Salty's OM From Hell, and it was the icing on the cake. You'll probably want to change the radius on the firing pin stop to make up for the reduced buffering, and to delay the slide a little. Since you've got a new spring, try it on the old one to see if it makes a difference.

Also, try a standard-length mag that has the dimpled follower and a Wolff spring to see it that makes a difference. The shortened 6-round Officer's Model mags take the same spring and follower as the GM-length 7-round mags...exactly. If you used the Wolff springs designed for 8-round mags, figuring that the shorter mag had to use a shorter spring, it will work, but may not provide enough oomph with that short speedy slide. You need the full 11-pound spring.

If that still doesn't do the trick, your mags may be spread at the top, and letting the rounds release too early or too abruptly. Measure across the top
on the flat area just under the feed lips. They should be .535 to .540 inch wide. There's a trick to closin'em up without damaging the mag. If that's what you find, get back with me and I'll write up my method for the fix here so that all can see it.

Standin' by...

 

[Shootcraps]

Sounds like he sold you a story. Night sights are supposed to last about 10 years aren't they?

 

[ken grant]

This is an old Wilson build,don't know exactly when but the guy's dad has been dead 11 yrs.
On the 6 rd. mags,I did use 11# Wolf springs and on the 7rd. mags,I used the plus 8% springs.
The recoil spring is a single 24# spring for the reverse plug conversion.
I just pulled the extractor and checked it and it seemed just a hair tight and it doesn't have a taper on the bottom of it nor a taper on the bottom of the hook.
I put a little taper on both places and will try that.

 

[ken grant]

Tuner

Just measured the mags and they check out O.K.,but would still like to see your way of fixing ones that don't.
I have a lot of your How-to's printed out and I would print this one as well
Are you ready for visitors yet? Sandra wants to take another ride-about. If so,I will load the 1911's and a lot of ammo and head to the kennel
Also, I will bring 3 Norincos to let you check out for your study on them.
Is your E-mail still the same? Mine is [email protected] in case you lost it in the move.

 

[rich636]

Can someone explain what "push-feeding" is? This is the first time I've seen the term.

Thanks
-Rich

 

[1911Tuner]

Push Feed

Hi rich. Welcome aboard.

Push feeding is a term for the round getting ahead of the optimum feeding position in the magazine, and having the slide knock it into the chamber instead of stripping it from the mag under full control, and sliding the rim under the extractor. It can result in either the slide not returning to battery if the extractor can't snap over...or climb over the rim...or it WILL snap over
and go to battery as if nothing happened. Not good for the extractor in any case. Loss of tension generally happens quickly, or outright breakage. Usually happens on the last round, but can occur at any place in the mag.
The fewer rounds in the mag, the more likely it is to occur. Insufficient spring tension is the usual cause. Out of spec mags is another, less frequent
one, and it can be aggrivated...but rarely caused solely by...too much recoil spring load...or too heavy a spring for the gun. To better understand why it happens, do a search here on a thread named: "Inertia." If that doesn't find it, PM me and I'll send it via E-mail.

Ken! Load Sandra up and come on! We're a lot closer and easier to find than we were in Rural Hall. Hit I-85 northbound, and stay on the interstate until you see the signs for Lexington, NC...about an hour north of Charlotte.
Take Old US-64 exit, and I'm about 5-10 minutes from the offramp, depending on whether you get behind a hay tractor on the way.

 

[rich636]

Thanks for the welcome and the very good explanation Tuner

 

[Deles136]

ken grant - I am now 70 and I can no longer use open sights. The best thing I found is the fairly cheap red dot sights. I found a bracket to fit a 1911 that takes the place of the right grip. I had to grind some of the bracket because it would not let the ejected case clear. Works great now, I put a grip over the flat plate bracket and now I have a good grip on the pistol. The bracket fits over the top of the slide and the scope mount sits on top. I found I could not rack the slide because I had blocked too much of it with the bracket. I went to Wal-Mart and found a carpenters hand operated type of plastic clamp that has rubber pads and a quick release. Now I hold the pistol with my left hand and clamp the device onto the back of the slide with my right and pull, works great. The BSA cheap red dots work fine for me as I no longer try any competition shooting. They run about $30 and now I hit the target where I want with ease. My grandson is just back from Iraq and says all of our rifles are equipped with red dot sights.

 

[ken grant]

Deles

Give our thanks to your grandson for his service!!!!!!!
I shot a guy's FAL with a red dot on it and I liked it. Been thinking about getting one.
I still want to try everything possible to shoot with open sights on my M-14. I can shoot and hit objects but just can't hold elevation on a bullseye with a 6 o'clock hold. I am now going to try a center hold and see if it works better.
As I said before,when shooting a handgun I can move my head around and get a fairly good sight picture(I wear progressive lens glasses) plus I use a center hold with my handguns

 

[1911Tuner]

Sights, etal

Ken...Fuff's cure works very well for target/bullseye. I found that what works pretty well for me in fast-paced shooting is to widen and deepen the rear notch a bit with a square, Swiss-pattern file and cut a 60 degree "V" in the top half for the total width at the top at about double the width of the front sight as viewed from the rear of the gun. The eye tends to self-center a little quicker than with the standard square notch. Windage won't be as precise as with the squared rear, but adequate for fast, close-range drills and easier to pick up in a hurry.

If you can't get that little blaster to behave, bring it with ya when ya'll come. I'll beat on it with a hammer 'til it submits...

 

[ulflyer]

Ken, I don't know how you like to range shoot, but for me I sit behind a table or somesuch, all comfortable as I can be, and plink away. My eyes have got pretty old, and just recently I have tried the XS express type on one of my 1911's and find it easier to see, and for me more accurate than the standard 3 dot. Also, I put a Ghost Ring on another 1911, and I'm really liking that too. I'll never be an accurate shooter again, but its nice to see some of the bullets make a decent grouping now and then. These sights improved things for me. Next I'm gonna get that little gadget, sorta like a peep sight with suction cup that goes on the glasses. I've made my own and it surely helps.

If you come up, maybe I can join you guys at the range and you can try my guns with these sights. Whoops, just remembered, Tuner can't take but one visitor in at a time.

 

[ken grant]

Ulflyer

I have always been a rifle shooter,never cared much for handguns,always had a few around but never much interest in shooting them. Almost 4 yrs. ago I lost everything to a fire and lost interest in anything.
About 2 yrs. ago,I started getting interested in shooting again but this time my interest changed to pistols and I have several now and have been shooting them a lot.
I came up with a M-14 clone and decided to try rifles again. Wow,how things can change over a few years!!
When I bring the front sight up to the bottom of the bull I can't tell where I am holding and my groups are very narrow in width but string up and down.
In my pistol shooting ,I can manage to move my head around and get a good sight picture. Just can't hold very well and jerk the trigger sometimes.
All my pistol shooting is from standing in some form of Weaver stance.
What I want to do now is try to learn to shoot fast and hit something.
I am going to do my best to use the sights on my M-14 or die trying. I want to shoot positions again.I only use the bench to check out a rifle.

 

[ken grant]

I know I am hardheaded,just ask Tuner,as I am still fighting Devel type followers in a few of my mags. Changed most of them out but still have several.
2 of my Officer's model mags have Devel followers and 2 don't.
Funny how a thread can start on one subject(Officer's ACP) and wind up on shooting an M-14 clone

 

[1911Tuner]

One Guest

Ted! I can take two at a time. The guy I had with me the day you came was the other one. That made two. Musta been a breakdown in communications...or else I didn't pour enough coffee down my neck before leavin' the house that mornin'.

Anyway...When Ken comes, we can all go burn many rounds.

 

[ken grant]

Visit to Tuner

Tuner,which is best for you,weekdays or weekends? Doesn't matter to me.
I would like to spend several days there and soak up as much as I can. I can bring plenty of ammo .
Is there a Motel close by? Also a good place to eat? We would like to take you and Kelie out to supper(dinner for non-rednecks) atr least one evening.

 

[ulflyer]

Resturants in lexington NC

Ken, Being a local, 'm gonna jump in here (Tuner, hope you don't mind): If you are into pork barBQ cooked over hot coals then Lex is THE PLACE. The best IMHO is "Lexington BarBQ" on US 85 Bypass...your sandwich (wrapped in paper) or tray of Q is flopped on your table without plates and you may have to ask for a fork. But its cooked daily and always fresh. Ask for some "dip" to go on it.

For regular foods theres the usual chains; Cracker Barrel, Steak places and such, even a couple of Chinese. Not much in the way of local resturants that I could recommend. If you want just plain good food and plenty to choose from theres a great cafeteria in Salisbury about 25 mi from Lex. Or up to Winston about 30 mi for some good resturants...Village Inn being a favorite, and Tripps. Good food, service, moderate prices. My wife & I go there often: couple drinks, meals, coffee afterwards; well under $50. Always a wait at Vill Inn, not usually at Tripps...but their steaks are exc.

Theres several Motels; Quality Inn, Comfort Inn, Motel 8? (something with an 8), and others: don't know about prices tho.

 

[saltydog452]

Ken's original post..

Ken,

In your original post you mentioned a felt/heard a 'snick' just before the hammer fell. I had that problem on one of my hard-ball guns years ago. Seems that no one else could feel/hear it but me. The problem was two fold. First, I was not being aggressive enough on the trigger and two,could feel/hear the disconnecter as it moved into the channel.

An armorer for one of the MTU Teams remarked that the problem was fairly common with newer shooters or team members whose place on the team was in jepordy. He cleaned up the disconnector slot and installed a new disconnector. Problem solved.

Hope that helps.

salty.

 

[armedandsafe]

I was having major problems with the open sights on those rifles which have them. I went to my opthalmologist with a representative rifle and he had me hold it in a firing position while he held trial lenses in front on my glasses until he found the right diopter for me to see clearly. Then I bought the stick-on bifocal patches (the ones to use on sun glasses) in the proper diopter. I cut a small dot off one and stuck it on the inside of the glasses lens, in the upper, inside corner (the spot I sight through.) This brings the front sight into perfect focus and I can tell where the sight sits on the bottom of the bull.

Works for me. Since we can use only open sights here for black powder, this is a saver.

Pops

 

[ken grant]

snick

Salty,my snick is just as the slide goes into battery,maybe 1/16 in. before lock up. Does not happen often but every once in awhile you can feel it while shooting.It seems like a delay in lockup.
You can also see it sometimes when working the slide real easy and just easing it into battery.
It is getting better as I shoot it.It was much worse when I first got it.

 

[1911Tuner]

Snick

Ken said:

It is getting better as I shoot it.It was much worse when I first got it.

That probably means that your extractor tension is headed south. Some push-feeding guns will stop short of battery...Some won't. Once in a while,
one will keep on tickin' as if it was workin' fine...until the extractor breaks.
Some will run pretty well with a broken extractor...or no extractor at all.
SOME-times...the push-feeder will stop for a different reason altogether, even though the extractor would probably climb the rim and go to battery.

In some guns, the tolerances between the barrel and slide lugs stack in just the right way to cause the lug corners to hit before the barrel lugs can enter the recesses in the slide, due to the barrel trying to rise into vertical lock too early...pushed by the extractor instead of the breechface pushing on the barrel hood. Just a point that some may not know about. The barrel has to time correctly as it goes into the slide too...

Once in a while, a tolerance stack will provide evidence of this when cycling the gun empty...usually when the muzzle is pointed straight down. A little "hitch" can be felt just as the slide goes to battery. If it does this trick when pointed down, but not when held in normal firing position, you can about bet that it's doin' it when feeding a round, as the round hits the throat and pushes the barrel forward during chambering. It "times" the barrel's rise a tick too early. Note that not all guns will do this, even when push-feeding.
It's a matter of specs and tolerances in the slide to barrel interface.

So...If your barrel lugs look a mite rounded or skint on the front corners...and the .250-inch linkdown timing checks out...and you occasionally have a light falure to go into battery...Here's yer sign!

NOTE: (For all those north of the Mason-Dixon) "Skint" is Reb-Bonics for skinned or slightly marred.