OH please someone tell me whats wrong with the picture! Unbeleivable (pic)
- Thread starter Das Pferd
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Nick1911
Member
Interesting! I didn't know that XP had built in EXIF data reading... That'll come in handy... (I just switched to XP about a week ago, so I'm still getting used to the changes... neat feature)
No problem. It's kind of cool that the camera records that right in with the picture... Little known fact that comes in handy every now and then.
Nick
2nd Amendment
member
Well, I'll chime in. Looks like a helluva good photo to me. It remains a good shot even if there was an idiot actually holding the camera. As for what someone said about eye and hearing protection, what are the odds you'll have such an opportunity in a home defense situation?
Looks like a helluva good photo to me. It remains a good shot even if there was an idiot actually holding the camera. As for what someone said about eye and hearing protection, what are the odds you'll have such an opportunity in a home defense situation?ny32182
Member
You know folks, guns don't fire unless you pull the trigger.
I like it. Looks like a .40 Gold Dot to me.
I like it. Looks like a .40 Gold Dot to me.
ny32182
Member
Ok, I'll bite. Whats wrong with it?
ScottS
Member
Whew! Glad I came here so I could figure out which techniques are wrong. There are a bunch of 1911 shooters at my club who will be glad to know they're doing it wrong. I'll make sure to tell them. I'm sure it will make me very popular.
Just so I get it right, which is now correct, "thumbs high" or "thumbs forward?"
BTW, is Weaver wrong now, too? Squinting non-dominant eye? Kydex?
Scott <--Never seems to get the newsletter when things switch to wrong.
triggertime
Member
For those of us who like to critique grip and technique, locking your thumbs down when shooting from a modern isoceles stance will break contact between the support hand and the gun hand as well as break contact between the support hand and the grip of the gun, which results in heeling, poor recoil management and increases your shot to shot recovery time.
Why? Body mechanics. Rolling your elbows out on a thumbs down grip causes your grip to come apart whereas rolling your elbows out on a thumbs forward grip not only increases your grip on the gun, but also increases contact between the support hand and the gun hand.
Why? Body mechanics. Rolling your elbows out on a thumbs down grip causes your grip to come apart whereas rolling your elbows out on a thumbs forward grip not only increases your grip on the gun, but also increases contact between the support hand and the gun hand.
LOL. I won't waste my time if your not willing to learn. Just because lots of people do it doesn't make it right.
Can you shoot a gun that way? Yes. Is it the most effective way? No.
Did I even mention stance? No.
Could that shooters be improved? Yes.
Discussing technique on the net is difficult anyway, I would prefer to show someone. I just answered Das's question. Sorry if that offends you.
Can you shoot a gun that way? Yes. Is it the most effective way? No.
Did I even mention stance? No.
Could that shooters be improved? Yes.
Discussing technique on the net is difficult anyway, I would prefer to show someone. I just answered Das's question. Sorry if that offends you.
Wow, you guys are pretty amazing with your ability to guage somebody's grip and shooting ability from a staged photo. That is a remarkable ability considering that as an basic instructor of actual human beings in the real world I have a hard time diagnosing a person's shooting grip while I'm actually there watching them, and not noting the fact that every single human being on the planet has slightly different physical traits that may change their grip, you know things like grip size, hand size, finger length, bone structure, physical handicaps, nerve damage, or even longer fingernails. Since I lock down my thumbs in a high thumb grip in a modified Iso stance on my 1911 that I have shot extensively in competiton for the last several years, I will be sure to disregard any wins or trophies which I may have accumulated because in reality I have been doing it wrong the whole time.
You know what? How about this. Experiment until you find what works for you, regardless of what some expert instructor has to say. Really experiment until you find your best stance, don't disregard any advice, keep an open mind, and try everything. Pick what works best and practice it until it is as natural as walking. There you go.
Sorry for the rant, but I get really irked whenever I'm told that there is only one proper way to shoot. I can go to national level matches and watch the people that are considered the best shooters in the world, and no two of them use exactly the same grip. Maybe there is a lesson there.
You know what? How about this. Experiment until you find what works for you, regardless of what some expert instructor has to say. Really experiment until you find your best stance, don't disregard any advice, keep an open mind, and try everything. Pick what works best and practice it until it is as natural as walking. There you go.
Sorry for the rant, but I get really irked whenever I'm told that there is only one proper way to shoot. I can go to national level matches and watch the people that are considered the best shooters in the world, and no two of them use exactly the same grip. Maybe there is a lesson there.
Speaking in generalities of someone's grip or stance is not difficult at all. Fine tuning them in person and checking grip, pressure, trigger control, etc can be challenging, though rocked science, it ain't. I know a guy who broke his wrist, and it fused together at a strange angle. He is now a weaver shooter for life because of the angle of his wrist. Generally though, physical differences don't play a great enough roll prevent discussion of the pros and cons of different grip styles.
I don't believe I said there was one way to shoot. Certainly their are endless variations. If you have been shooing one way for a long time, and it is ingrained and works for you then fine. Stop and think though, what if you had found a more efficient way to shoot years ago? It is possible that you would be a better shooter today than you are. We had a retired secret service agent come to our school that was on numerous teams, a PPC national champion, and served on three presidential details. He was angry that he had not been taught the techniques we showed him years ago.
Anyhoo, like I said I just answered the original question the way I saw fit. I did not mean to upset the take it personally crowd.
I always thought I had remarkable abilities though.
ScottS
Member
Granted. And, conversely, just because one guy thinks it's wrong...
I'm hardly offended. I just wanted to be sure I knew which other "techniques" were "wrong."
As--like Correia put it--an "instructor of actual human beings in the real world," whose been doing it for many years (in my case, flying), I'm always amused by people who confuse their "technique" with "procedure."
There are many ways to skin the cat. Different techniques work better than others for different people. As long as your way gets the cat skinned, who's to say it's wrong?
Scott
thumbtack
Member
One point everyone missed is that it is a Glock and not a 1911.
laynlow, I'm not taking anything personal. I'm just have a tendancy to be a smart alec.
As far as trying new things, and finding better ways to do stuff, I agree totally. I addressed that in my post that you quoted from. Experiment and listen with an open mind until you find what works for you and then practice it. I learn new things everytime I go shooting. You need to pay attention to what you are doing, and pay special attention to the people that shoot better than you.
With that said however, there are so many different styles used by some really good shooters that the idea of there being one best way to shoot is tiresome. I file it in the same place as the one best gun.
There are some systems that I try to talk people out of because A. they just plain suck. or B. Nobody on Earth does them well. Just like I would try to talk somebody out of buying a Lorcin (because they just plain suck) but I wouldn't try to talk them out of a Glock or Sig just because I personally don't like those brands. In the same vein I try to get my students to not use the cup and saucer grip, or the grasp the wrist grip, or my personal favorite, the put the support thumb over the firing hand so it can get whacked by the recoiling slide technique. (from personal experience, if you have a student that just cannot help but stick their thumb there, make sure they get a revolver!)
So I put Weaver vs. Iso in the same camp as High grip vs. standard grip or locked thumbs vs. thumbs forward. Those topics are the training equivilent to Glock vs. 1911. Both sides think they are right, and both schools of thought work well for different people.
I know of one major training school that absolutely insists on Weaver as the only true way to shoot. They harp on it constantly. They won't let their shooters go any other way. That is their method. The same thing for everybody. Personally I don't agree, because some folks just plain can't shoot Weaver worth a darn. But according to the particular school, EVERYBODY ELSE IS WRONG. I just think that is a stupid way of thinking.
As far as trying new things, and finding better ways to do stuff, I agree totally. I addressed that in my post that you quoted from. Experiment and listen with an open mind until you find what works for you and then practice it. I learn new things everytime I go shooting. You need to pay attention to what you are doing, and pay special attention to the people that shoot better than you.
With that said however, there are so many different styles used by some really good shooters that the idea of there being one best way to shoot is tiresome. I file it in the same place as the one best gun.
There are some systems that I try to talk people out of because A. they just plain suck. or B. Nobody on Earth does them well. Just like I would try to talk somebody out of buying a Lorcin (because they just plain suck) but I wouldn't try to talk them out of a Glock or Sig just because I personally don't like those brands. In the same vein I try to get my students to not use the cup and saucer grip, or the grasp the wrist grip, or my personal favorite, the put the support thumb over the firing hand so it can get whacked by the recoiling slide technique. (from personal experience, if you have a student that just cannot help but stick their thumb there, make sure they get a revolver!)
So I put Weaver vs. Iso in the same camp as High grip vs. standard grip or locked thumbs vs. thumbs forward. Those topics are the training equivilent to Glock vs. 1911. Both sides think they are right, and both schools of thought work well for different people.
I know of one major training school that absolutely insists on Weaver as the only true way to shoot. They harp on it constantly. They won't let their shooters go any other way. That is their method. The same thing for everybody. Personally I don't agree, because some folks just plain can't shoot Weaver worth a darn. But according to the particular school, EVERYBODY ELSE IS WRONG. I just think that is a stupid way of thinking.
Correia,
We are on the same page then. I normally don't like to sit and type a long winded reply on message boards of any kind. I just hate it. Sometimes, I post short contrite answers for this reason. I don't mean to say the shooters grip is wrong to the exclusion of all others, but if I were to instruct him, I would tell him it is not the most desirable grip in the world. If he absolutely positively has to use that grip or won't try my way, then I will still tune him up as best as I can.
We don't teach Weaver or Iso. Our style lends it's self to Iso for numerous reasons, but shooting is an upper body skill so for the most part I am not concerned with what the feet are doing or what we call a stance.
Oh yeah, everyone knows that Glocks rule. Right??
We are on the same page then. I normally don't like to sit and type a long winded reply on message boards of any kind. I just hate it. Sometimes, I post short contrite answers for this reason. I don't mean to say the shooters grip is wrong to the exclusion of all others, but if I were to instruct him, I would tell him it is not the most desirable grip in the world. If he absolutely positively has to use that grip or won't try my way, then I will still tune him up as best as I can.
We don't teach Weaver or Iso. Our style lends it's self to Iso for numerous reasons, but shooting is an upper body skill so for the most part I am not concerned with what the feet are doing or what we call a stance.
Oh yeah, everyone knows that Glocks rule. Right??
ScottS
Member
OK, Now I am offended!Oh yeah, everyone knows that Glocks rule. Right??
Scott
One of the things I notce about the pic is that the individual is not aiming at the camera, he's aiming slightly above it.
Logic would have me asusme that when an individual aims a handgun you can see half, or more of the target over the sight, so the target should be able to see half or less of the eye. The gun completely covers the shooters right eye. Which would lead me to beleive that the gun is aiming above the target.
Also, i don't know a whole lot about shooting grip, and technique yet. I'm still a novice. But I do know that after having Correia tutor me for a good few hours and my shot improved a little but not perfect, that helping a persons shooting technique and procedure is a lot more difficult than to say "He would shoot better if he moved his thumbs."
Logic would have me asusme that when an individual aims a handgun you can see half, or more of the target over the sight, so the target should be able to see half or less of the eye. The gun completely covers the shooters right eye. Which would lead me to beleive that the gun is aiming above the target.
Also, i don't know a whole lot about shooting grip, and technique yet. I'm still a novice. But I do know that after having Correia tutor me for a good few hours and my shot improved a little but not perfect, that helping a persons shooting technique and procedure is a lot more difficult than to say "He would shoot better if he moved his thumbs."
Treylis
Member
Damn, beat me to it. ;-P
Nick1911
Member
Taking that picture isn't really that hard, take a look at the attached picture, it was just a snapshop. You can clearly see the firing pin. Not real hard...
Nick
(I had to balence the original pic with something tastefull... )
(And don't even get going on the grip... it was a snapshot
)
Nick
(I had to balence the original pic with something tastefull...
)(And don't even get going on the grip... it was a snapshot
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Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Terrible typography.
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