Ohio Reciprocity: General Information (Mostly For Non-Residents)

[Flyboy]

A couple of people have discussed trying to get reciprocity with Ohio. I'm an Oklahoma resident, but last December, I ramrodded OH-OK reciprocity through. Right now, Ohio has reciprocity with the following states:
# Alaska
# Arizona
# Delaware
# Florida
# Idaho
# Kentucky
# Michigan
# Missouri
# North Carolina
# Oklahoma
# South Carolina
# Tennessee
# Utah
# Virginia
# Washington
# Wyoming
(source: http://www.ag.state.oh.us/web_applications/concealcarry/reciprocity.asp )

If you're on that list, great. If not, it's worth trying to get an agreement through. The AG, Jim Petro, has been very receptive about reciprocity. Getting more agreements would also strengthen CCW supporters' arguments (more support for the program). Ohio has seen less interest than originally expected. Most of the supporters point to the poison-pill as the reason (and they're probably right; there's an effort underway to fix some of that. Check out http://www.ohioccw.org for more information).

The Ohio CCW program is administered by the State Attorney General's office. All reciprocity is negotiated through that office. AG Jim Petro is enthusiastic about signing agreements. Assistant (or Deputy, I don't recall anymore) AG Jon Fulkerson is directly responsible for the arrangements; he negotiates with the other agency (in the case of Oklahoma, OSBI) to hammer out the agreement, then presents it to Petro for signature. You can contact Mr. Fulkerson in the AG's office at (614) 466-4320. He seems like a pretty good guy; he got Oklahoma on board, despite a full docket, the Christmas holidays (agreement signed on 27 December 2004), and Oklahoma's stalling (grrr!), in about three weeks. If anybody has any questions, or I can help with anything, I'm not hard to reach.

As for why I'm getting involved, well, there are two reasons. 1) My family, and a lot of my friends, live in Ohio, so I have a personal stake there. 2) It's A Human Right, damnit, and I'm always game for working on that one.

 

[P95Carry]

Excellent stuff Flyboy - good to keep this high profile.

To add - I am having some thoughts!!!! And, thx.

 

[Diggler]

We're screwed in PA, because our state doesn't require you to take classes to exercise your rights.

 

[Browns Fan]

I have a sister in Cleveland. This is great news, thanks to you and OFCC for your efforts. Now, if only we can do something about that annal vehicle carry law...

 

[Henry Bowman]

Diggler -- Interestingly, neither does Washington, yet Ohio has reciprocity with them. Maybe they don't think that many Washingtonians will actually come to Ohio and carry. Guess they didn't look in my wallet!

 

[Diggler]

Hmmm... the other thing that screws us in that regard is that PA doesn't have a centralized verification number, so a dispatcher would have to call a county-specific number (which may or may not be manned at that time) to verify a CHL.

BUT, a few months ago I sent a letter to the Ohio A.G. and got this response back...

Thank you for your inquiry regarding reciprocity with Pennsylvania. Currently Ohio does not have a reciprocity agreement with Pennsylvania as that state's law is not "substantially comparable" with Ohio's law, which set that standard for the states with which we can have reciprocity. Pennsylvania does not require training for its licensees.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Dunno when they started, but PA will not issue a non-resident license to someone who's state issues them and doesn't have one.

This can easily result in non-residents having considerably more training than residents, better background checks, etc.

The downside is that if you live someplace where getting a license locally is difficult (NYC, perhaps), you can't get a PA license.

(PA also offers a "hunters" CCW license - doesn't seem to be particularly restricted. OH's DNR is trying to deny CCW to hunters. Go figure....)

(ODNR is now apparently willing to talk about this.)

What's got me jumping just now is that it appears that my PA non-resident would be valid in TX, whereas my OH resident isn't, although the latter might change soon. Apparently OH doesn't do a Federal-level background check that TX wants. That TX could charge us $100 for a non-resident by just running that check doesn't seem to have occurred to them. Instead they don't want to issue a non-resident because OH has a resident CHL....

(IANAL, and I'm not sure about TX honoring a PA non-resident, but it sure looks like it. I really should drink more.... )

 

[Diggler]

Come to think of it, Florida accepts a hunter's safety course certificate from PA as a 'proof of training.' It's too bad Ohio wouldn't accept me carrying with my CHL as well as my hunter's safety card... I guess they don't want to rely on a document signed by an 11 year old kid.

 

[Rimmer]

SMMAssociates


Dunno when they started, but PA will not issue a non-resident license to someone who's state issues them and doesn't have one.

Two weeks after Ohio CCW law went into effect.

What's got me jumping just now is that it appears that my PA non-resident would be valid in TX, whereas my OH resident isn't, <SNIP>

(IANAL, and I'm not sure about TX honoring a PA non-resident, but it sure looks like it. I really should drink more.... )

Texas will honor a PA non-res permit.

 

[SMMAssociates]

Rich:

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure when PA stopped issuing non-resident OH permits without OH CHL's. I had been intending to get one for some time, but inertia won.

When I got my CHL in June (about 43 days!), I decided to send PA the money and.... That's when I found out that you now had to have the OH CHL.

I'm really surprised about TX, though.... Guess I can shake up my sister RSN. She's been after me to come down for some time, but more inertia has kept me from getting a FL permit. TX is real bad about "printing", so I might just bring something smaller, but....

Diggler:

Not accepting that Hunter Safety Card may be the only sensible thing OH has done lately . They wouldn't take my 1968 OPOTA card either, and I was over 21 then. We even had to show proficiency with a shotgun to get that.

Regards,

 

[Diggler]

Actually it was the Missouri problems that were flooding the system and forced them to make that change.

http://www.packing.org/news/article.jsp/9608

SMMAssociates,

You were using sarcasm about the hunter ed. card, right? Because I don't think you should have to be tested or sit through classes to be able to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights and protect yourself. That's the only thing that bothers me about Florida's permit... that and the fact that it costs 5x more than a PA license. I know the class/testing isn't difficult but that's not the point... it is another hurdle that stands in the way of your rights.

 

[SMMAssociates]

You were using sarcasm about the hunter ed. card, right? Because I don't think you should have to be tested or sit through classes to be able to exercise your 2nd Amendment rights and protect yourself. That's the only thing that bothers me about Florida's permit... that and the fact that it costs 5x more than a PA license. I know the class/testing isn't difficult but that's not the point... it is another hurdle that stands in the way of your rights.

Diggler:

Dunno about the sarcasm, but we do generally agree. FL's permit is somewhat more expensive than it needs to be - I think they know that.

I object to the classroom stuff, too, when it's ten or twelve hours of "point it downrange" v.s. the class I just did (or the OPOTA classes in 1967-1968) where some useful information was imparted too. At least I didn't leave each night feeling that I'd been forced to waste my time.

While all of this "prove yourself" stuff may be an infringement (I think so), I think we also forget another basic - back when the Founding Fathers wrote the 2nd Amendment (and the rest of the Constitution), generally nobody picked up a gun at the local shop and stuck it in his belt. Instead, an older relative or friend showed us what a gun was, how to handle it safely, how to load it, etc. In short, most people got the course, one-on-one, before they were "allowed" to carry it.

There's, not a lot of difference between a good course (finding one may be a problem) and having grandpa, dad, or big brother, run you through the same thing....

What bothers me mostly about mandatory courses & such is the idea that some governmental entity defines the standards for qualification. What's to stop them from raising the bar to something impossible?

For example, the NRA Basic Pistol course (acceptable in OH with some State-mandated additions) requires that you put ten rounds onto a fair sized piece of paper and not kill anybody beside you. (Sarcasm On there, guys, but it is really a very simple course.)

However, what's to stop "you must put 10 rounds into the X-Ring of an 8-1/2x11 target at 100 yards"? That it's nonsense never seems to bother the guys who write these bills....

In some areas, having grandpa sign off on you should be sufficient. In others, the NRA Basic Pistol course should stand in. I don't think that's an infringement. When it becomes the "Florida Basic Pistol", though, that's another story....

 

[Diggler]

Yeah, that's true. But the difference is that it wasn't the government that said "yes, you can have a gun" or "no, you can't." And back then, if you didn't have any training, you could still have a gun if you wanted. Even though that probably wasn't the norm. And what about people who don't have the money or the time to take a class? Maybe they work two jobs. A lot of us live and breathe guns. But I don't think that it is a bad thing if a husband gives a wife a DA revolver to keep in her purse before she goes somewhere that may be risky, after showing her basically how the thing works. Show her to keep her finger off the trigger, point it, pull the trigger and it goes BOOM. You might not get some people like that to give up a day to sit through a class but there are times where they could need to defend themselves.

I've never had a class of any type except for my hunter's safety course way back then. And when I do take another, it won't be because the gov't said I had to do it. You don't need classes. You need common sense, and some people have it and some don't. A class won't give that to you. A completely reckless, unsafe person can buck it up for a class and get a permit and go back to his old ways. It doesn't do a darn thing except make it that much harder to get a permit.