OHIO: Reporters get special access, then get threats not to use it

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Ebbtide

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http://www.coshoctontribune.com/news/stories/20040111/localnews/208555.html

"I guess I should feel special. If I want to know whether my neighbor, or your neighbor for that matter, has a permit to carry a concealed weapon, I'll be able to find out. You, on the other hand, will not.

Under the bill signed by Gov. Bob Taft allowing Ohioans to carry concealed weapons, only journalists will have access to the names, birthdates and county residence of those who choose to get a permit to carry.

While it's nice that these government documents aren't closed off completely, few reporters are satisfied with their special access. As the Dayton Daily News recently wrote: "Government isn't entitled to decide who has a good reason to see basic government documents and who doesn't. And that's what it will be doing here."

Reporters may have access, but apparently they have to be careful how they use their special privilege, or the big bad legislature is going to take that access away.

Rep. Jim Aslanides, R-Coshocton, spent two days warning reporters that if they dare step out of line and abuse their access to the lists of concealed permit owners, he will work to change the law and close off all records.

He said papers should not run the lists of permit holders just for the sake of running them. While that can be a pure judgment call based on newsworthiness, it will be worth watching how closely lawmakers, angry that reporters can access the gun permits will scour for excuses to close off those records.

Frank Deaner, executive director of the Ohio Newspaper Association, was "disturbed" by Aslanides' warning.

"His remark gets very close to the fine line between journalists' responsibilities and censorship," he said. "That's not for Jim Aslanides to decide."

It already appears newspapers are firing back.

The state's largest newspaper, the Cleveland Plain Dealer, said bluntly, " ... it is this newspaper's intention to obtain this information and publish it. Our readers deserve to know the identities of those who obtain permits, to carry their guns in public. We hope other news organizations will do the same in their communities."

Any threats to further close off the public from knowing who might be carrying a concealed handgun likely will ring hollow, at least until Taft is out of office -- and possibly beyond. If Taft had his way, the records would be open to everyone.

Two Republicans running in 2006 to replace Taft also favor more openness for concealed handgun records, not less.

"I think the limitation to have these records available only to journalists is unduly restrictive. I think it should be open records, like anything else," said Attorney General Jim Petro.

Petro also disagreed with the argument that records should be sealed so criminals can't find out who is carrying, and then go after people who are unarmed.

"That's a stretch," he said. "I don't really buy into that very much."

Auditor Betty Montgomery agreed, saying she would have vetoed this gun bill over public records. "This bill desperately needs openness, and we should not be creating a separate class of those who have the ability to see public records."

***

As a side note, if you're wondering just how crazy this whole concealed carry issue has been, consider this: the Ohio Senate actually passed a gun bill three times in the last 13 months.

***

Jim Siegel is the Gannett Columbus Bureau chief. "
 
Two things about this (not only Ohio- any state that allows access to these records)...

I thought that there were privacy laws on the books to protect personal information that the government collects. What could be more private than the fact that you own and carry a gun? Something expensive that has high value "on the street", why not publicize who owns an expensive TV, or jewelry, or diamonds, or keeps large amounts of cash, etc...?

Petro also disagreed with the argument that records should be sealed so criminals can't find out who is carrying, and then go after people who are unarmed.

"That's a stretch," he said. "I don't really buy into that very much."
I figured that those who are for this kind of "disclosure" wouldn't "buy it". I also notice that this is the usual arguement our side uses against disclosures of CCW lists. Is there any information out there about whether this actually happens...Are there any studies of how much of an increase in burglaries, and especially gun thefts, at the homes of CCW holders after these kinds of lists are printed in local papers? If so this seems to me to be very good ammunition against these laws.
 
Here is my letter...

[email protected]

I don't know who bgbrown is, but his e-mail addy was on the opinions page...


http://www.coshoctontribune.com/news/stories/20040111/localnews/208555.html

More than just legislators are warning editors not to abuse their last-minute, legislature-granted free peek into the CCW database. Gun owners and groups such as http://www.keepandbeararms.com are saying that if you try to publish entire lists of gun owners, they will publish the personal information of editors, reporters, and newspaper owners.

After all, doesn't the public have a right to know who is responsible for printing and broadcasting the news? Perhaps a history of divorce or bancruptcy in a reporter's life would cause him to shade the story a bit. I think we have a right to know, don't you? What honest journalist could object?

While we are at it, many states require that voter registration information with the names and addresses and other personal information be made public. Yet, strangely, they restrict access to voter registration information of police, judges, prosecutors and other public officials. Why do you think they do that? Rights for Thee but not for Me?

Rick
 
I figured that those who are for this kind of "disclosure" wouldn't "buy it". I also notice that this is the usual arguement our side uses against disclosures of CCW lists. Is there any information out there about whether this actually happens...Are there any studies of how much of an increase in burglaries, and especially gun thefts, at the homes of CCW holders after these kinds of lists are printed in local papers? If so this seems to me to be very good ammunition against these laws.
I'm pro-CCW, but I don't think thats entirely valid- I would be more concerned about anti-gun groups would use the info to harrass permit holders; I wonder how these people would feel if (hypothetically) a state-run monopoly abortion clinic was forced to release its lists of users.
 
Sippenhaft, I understand that for most people (like me) who are opposed to CCW holders information being public that isn't really the main (or sometimes the real) reason for opposing it. However, that is the reason that is usually argued as it is the one most likely to have anyone care. Even so, as is reported in this article, it is often "poo pooed" anyway. I'm thinking of strengthening the arguement by bringing in stats and/or actual stories of people being targeted because of these newspaper lists. I don't think saying "we don't want the antis having our names and information because they might write us and call us and otherwise bug us" is going to carry any weight with the legislatures, newpapers and general public in any CCW state (even the most pro-gun) or states considering CCW laws.
 
I wonder if the state issues a list of every Police officer and their home address to the media or to anyboby who wants it?
 
The system to be put in place is, allegedly, identical to the one granting journalists access to the home address and personal information of police officers. So in that, at least, there is some kernel of fairness.

However, cops state-wide detest that system, and CCW holders are likely to do the same.

Mike
 
I'm thinking of collecting all kinds of info on the entire staff for the local newspaper, and then if I see ONE name of a concealed carry permit holder, printing that info on flyers. Name, address, phone #, how much they make a year, what kind of car they drive, how many doors their house has, how many ground floor windows, whether or not they have a dog, whether they are known to own any firearms, what hours they are at work, any bars they like to go to, all kinds of good stuff. And make sure to pass the flyers out at the local welfare housing, post outside of jails in a 3 or 4 county area, pass them out in the grocery store parking lot, etc. See how much they like it when every scumbag crook in a 3 county area knows where they live, when they are home, and whether or not they are likely to have a $3000 TV in their living room.

Maybe let them know ahead of time that such flyers exist, and will ONLY be printed and distributed if the list of CCW permit holders is printed. As long as they dont try to make us a target for criminals, we wont do the same for them.
 
Our readers deserve to know the identities of those who obtain permits, to carry their guns in public.

People who can't figure out what to do with commas shouldn't try to masquerade as journalists.

People who trust R.I.N.O.s shouldn't be surprised when their civil rights are trampled.

I think someone with a C.C.W. permit in Ohio should take the state to court over this provision. I'm unfamiliar with Ohio law, but it's probably a blatant violation of privacy standards.
 
It would be refreshing if the press would at least come clean with their true intentions about wanting to publish the permit lists, and admit that they merely want to intimidate the population into not applying.
 
I think someone with a C.C.W. permit in Ohio should take the state to court over this provision. I'm unfamiliar with Ohio law, but it's probably a blatant violation of privacy standards.
As I said, that portion of the bill is supposedly worded similarly to the provision granting journalists access to the personal information of police officers. As such, that case was fought and lost a few years back. One might try to make a case that the list of CCW holders is fundamentally different in nature from police officers (and there is some merit in that), but I'm not holding my breath.
It would be refreshing if the press would at least come clean with their true intentions about wanting to publish the permit lists, and admit that they merely want to intimidate the population into not applying.
DING DING DING! He's got it.

Mike
 
So go ahead and run the names, jerkoffs. Who cares?

By the way, the new OH law recognizes all state permits. So I can come into OH and carry with my VA permit. And you nanny-staters at the PD will never know about it.

:D

Edited -- Alas, looks like I was wrong. I read in several sources that OH would recognize other states' permits. But I just read now that the AG of OH has to enter into an agreement with each state that has similar training requirements, AND the other state has to recognize Ohio's permits.

Check out these FAQ's for more: http://www.ofcc.net/faq.html

Makes no sense to me. If each state recognizes the other states' driver's licenses, what makes CCW permits any different?

Oh, I forgot. We're talking about guns. 65% of the population doesn't think logically in matters concerning guns.
 
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The only proper response to such activities is to find the names and addresses of all these reporters and the management and editors at these newspapers and list them on a website hosted on a foreign web server.
 
Partisan........Info Please????

I have a res. PA permit and Utah also - been checking Packing.Org for info and recognition of OHIO on other permits but have not yet found it.

Can you please provide your source that OH will honor ALL other state permits??

Thanks again!
 
Ohio will honor other permits after entering into agreements with those states whose licensing and training requirements are comparable to Ohio's....which means 12 hrs training required....there is no "blanket" reciprocity.
 
Not a web site. My suggestion of flyers, passed out everywhere. There are still poor people who dont have a computer, and thus wont be able to go to the web site. Also, you have to actually TRY to go to a web site, whereas a flyer is just there, and people read things that are posted in public all the time without specifically looking for them.
 
Is there any information out there about whether this actually happens
No, and it probably doesn't. The only argument for disclosure of CCW records is that it is in the public's interest. I fail to see how the public is served by knowing the names of CCW holders.
 
Maybe after a few of the reporters get nasty letters from CCW holders they have exposed, they will not do it anymore.
 
The law states that the records will be released only if the reporter/media person signs a statement that the release of this information to them is in the public interest.

What possible public interest could be served by publishing this information? There are already several attorneys ready to commence civil proceedings against any newspaper, reporter, editor..etc that allows this to be published.

I suspect that the media threats are just that, but we'll see.
 
I suspect that the media threats are just that


I agree. Threatening to do this is the only way to demonstrate their "outrage" over this "travesty of justice".:rolleyes:

Whats interesting is the way shall-issue CCW laws are making headway into what I call "urban liberal dominated" states like MN, OH, MO (well it passed!:banghead: ).

Could there be long term hope for us in MD, MA, IL, etc?
 
"Government isn't entitled to decide who has a good reason to see basic government documents and who doesn't. And that's what it will be doing here."
CCW permits are not "basic goverment documents" any more than are tax returns.
 
Absolutely, you can pass "shall issue" in other states. If we did it in Minnesota, it can be done anywhere... except, maybe, the People's Republic of Massachusetts.

But it'll take a lot of work, and years. Just in the last few months before the MCPPA passed here, David Gross, Joe Olson, and Tim Grant were, basically, working sixty or more hours per week on it, and they were hardly the only ones.

It's not just the last-month stuff, either. Setting the groundwork for it took, literally, six years of Alfred Fingulin setting up the CCRN table at darned near every gunshow in the state, and explaining, listening, collecting (organization isn't free, and mailings are expensive).

If a group in another state wants to learn how to do it, spending a week with folks from one of the successful grass-roots organizations would be time and money well-spent.
 
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