Ok, please school me on loading for the M14

[blarby]

Much as the title says, please take me to school on loading for the M14/M1A.

What I think I know :

1. I think I'll finally need a small base die in .308

2. I'll need a new headspace gauge for same.

3. I have a ton of H/I 4895 and 4064, and this puts me in good spirits.

4. I have several thousand BR2 and #34 primers, and this also puts me in good spirits.

5. I have a micrometer seater, and I'm reasonably sure I can find 2.800

6. Unfortunately, the M1A I may be getting, although new, does not have its documentation, which I'm assuming also means the headspace measurement.

I've got my pencil and paper handy, those of you that know better, please lead the way.

 

[steve4102]

You might find this article helpful.

http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf

 

[lightman]

The M-14 is not hard to load for. They are like most semi-autos in being hard on brass. LC or any other mil spec brass works well. I have not had to use a small base die in my two. I have used lots of CCI-200 primers, so what you have will work fine. The powders you have are fine, but I would not go slower than 4064. I've never used a head space guage for loading and only recently a case guage (Wilson). Good Luck.

 

[30Cal]

See text in red.

Much as the title says, please take me to school on loading for the M14/M1A.

What I think I know :

1. I think I'll finally need a small base die in .308
Probably not

2. I'll need a new headspace gauge for same.
No. A case comparator, yes.

3. I have a ton of H/I 4895 and 4064, and this puts me in good spirits.
That is good

4. I have several thousand BR2 and #34 primers, and this also puts me in good spirits.
That's good

5. I have a micrometer seater, and I'm reasonably sure I can find 2.800

6. Unfortunately, the M1A I may be getting, although new, does not have its documentation, which I'm assuming also means the headspace measurement.
Measure brass fired in that rifle and set your FL sizing die to push the shoulder back by 0.002-0.004". It's pretty simple. If you don't have a case comparator or case gage, follow the instructions provided withe the sizing die; make sure they'll chamber before you size a bunch.

I've got my pencil and paper handy, those of you that know better, please lead the way.

 

[blarby]

*takes notes *

 

[1KPerDay]

I use Wilson case gauge and size to the lower step. I don't use a small base die. Seat primers below flush. Don't go too hot and generally keep bullets below 170 grains. Good info on the M14 forums if interested. Hornady manual has loading data for 7.62 service rifle if interested.

 

[Kurastduuks]

I would say if your m1a is a standard model (mine is) use your standard 308 resizing die and let it cam over good and hard but if you get a model with a match barrel/chamber save yourself the potential headache and get a small base die. I experimented for an eternity with brass, primers, powder and bullets in mine and tried measuring every charge, running them on the progressive and sorting headstamps on my pile of mixed NATO brass, what i found most accurate and least maddening (ymmv) was using all my cases (mine only varried .3gr of water weight between different military cases, mostly LC and IMI) , running varget (used 4064 forever and shot just as well but metering is brutal, 4895 worked great though) straight from the powder measure at 42.5 +-.2 and seating hornady 168gr bthp's @2.810. I do all my m1a loading on the single stage and this combo gives me between 1.25-1.75" @106 and has proved very accurate and our little make believe dmr rifle shoots some friends and i do from 200 to 750. I have never used (for 308) a case gauge, micrometer seater, headspace gauge or military primers, I actually use the "too soft for the m1a" federal large rifle primers since i had several thousand on hand when i worked up the loads and was never told they were "dangerous" till I had already shot 5 or 6 hundred

 

[ReloaderFred]

I have two M1A's. One is a "standard" and the other is a "match". Both chambers are basically the same, and I've never had to use a small base die for either of them. I use an RCBS Precision Mic to set up my sizing dies, and I set the shoulder back .002" from fired condition.

You'll read that the cases are stretched on firing due to the fast action of the M1A/M14. I did an experiment with my Standard rifle in which I fired 5 rounds normally, and then closed the gas port and fired 5 rounds as in a single shot rifle. All 10 rounds measured the same out of that particular rifle, so for my rifle I can say the cases don't stretch due to the fast action of the gas system. That may not hold true for all M1A's, but it did for mine. I can't do the same experiment on the Match rifle, since the gas port is permanently open on those rifles and can't be closed.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[Sunray]

Been loading for a real semi'd Winchester M-14 for years. It's no different than any other semi-auto. FL resize every time, check case lengths and watch the OAL.
1) No. SB dies are rarely required for any semi-auto, but it's them or full length. Not both. A regular FL die will work just fine provided it's set up correctly.
2) No. Cases do not have headspace. Headspace is a rifle manufacturing tolerance only. A headspace gauges are the precision tools used to check said tolerance. Haven't ever used a case gauge myself. Never had any issues.
3) IMR4064 is your friend. The 4895's will do, but IMR4064 gives more consistent accuracy. Especially with match grade bullets.
4) The BR primers will do, but aren't required. CCI #34 primers are nothing more than magnum primers. Totally unnecessary for any semi-auto. They're no more "milspec" than a stick.
5) 2.800" will do.
6) Headspace is not measured. Only checked. If your new M1A is still under warrantee, SA Inc. will void said warrantee if you use reloads. CYA thing for them.
Oh. And an M1A is not an M-14.

 

[LiveLife]

I have reloaded for a friend's M1A using H4895/Varget/R15 and Hornady 168/175 gr BTHP with good results and these also worked well in my Saiga .308:

- Lee dies, full length resize reloaded on C-H 205 single stage with PPM and 10-10 scale
- COL 2.800", no bullet comparator or headspace gauge
- Winchester/Tula LR primers
- Once fired Lake City brass sorted by weight for testing but later used commercial headstamp brass

I prefer H4895 and Varget for shorter distances (you are hunting closer than 400 yards, right? ) and that's what I put in your "gift" box - Get well soon!

If you need anything more, The Rifleman's Journal has so much more for .308 loading - http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/10/cartridges-loading-308-for-palma.html

Here's a list of .308 pet loads - http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2010/01/reloading-western-shooters-pet-loads.html

 

[lysanderxiii]

*takes notes *

^This is probably the most important piece of advice^

Nothing like finding that perfect load and finding out you can't repeat it. Notes can also keep you from making silly mistakes.

 

[cfullgraf]

1. I think I'll finally need a small base die in .308

Know what rifle cases were fired in.

Cases not fired in your rifle may not chamber in your rifle if sized with a standard sizing die.

 

[blarby]

Alright, standard FL die it is.

If the actual headspace measure is not as important as I've been led to believe from other sources, I guess that's another piece of kit I can leave out, too.

I'm liking this even better now.

If it's all the same, I'll pass on the Federal primers

I'm still really sketchy on the out of battery slamfire issue, and I'll stick to Slamfires great advice on that one.

*takes notes*

 

[Kurastduuks]

Deleted

 

[30Cal]

Alright, standard FL die it is.

If the actual headspace measure is not as important as I've been led to believe from other sources, I guess that's another piece of kit I can leave out, too.

I'm liking this even better now.

If it's all the same, I'll pass on the Federal primers

I'm still really sketchy on the out of battery slamfire issue, and I'll stick to Slamfires great advice on that one.

*takes notes*

I don't shoot Federal primers, but I don't have a technical reason for why that's so. Keep in mind that a zillion rds of FedGMM have been fired from M14 rifles.

The rifle will dimple primers every time when you chamber rounds. Make sure each primer is seated below flush. As an extra measure, I cut each pocket a tad deeper so they're on average 0.008" below flush. Most guys probably don't do this. I've shot probably 10k Winchester and about 5k Remington primers through the M1 and M14 rifles.

Slamfire is another reason why FL resizing is necessary. I don't gage each sized round, but there are some that do. When you single load, do it from the magazine or ease the bolt halfway forward before letting it fly.

 

[MEHavey]

As mentioned above:

Probably the BEST article instructions on the M1A are found here:
www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf

While it goes in depth on every aspect, the real key elements are:

- Use CCI primers ( NOT Federals which are too soft/vulnerable to slam fire - military CCI # 34s are considered safest of all)
- Generally stay with medium burn-rate powders -- which are the same powders as for the M-1 Garand IMR-4895, H4895, Accurate Arms (AA)2495, IMR-4064, IMR 3031, Varget, RL-15, VV-140, etc, etc
- Stay w/ bullet weights from 150 - 175 grains, no heavier
- Stay w/ mid-range velocities/not faster than 150gr/2,750fps or 175gr/2,550fps
- Full length resize all cases (don't try to 'just bump' the shoulder), and serously consider tossing after 4-6 firings (M1A extraction at pressure is very hard on/stretches brass)


***
..and oh yes, cases DO have headspace dimension.

 

[LiveLife]

I clean the primer pockets and hand prime to seat primers below flush (I aim for .004") and never had a slam fire.

 

[blarby]

Probably the BEST article instructions on the M1A are found here:
www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf

Which is actually where I started before I even posted here.

Its great info, for certain.

It lead me to :

What I think I know

But as always, there is conflicting advice.

..and oh yes, cases DO have headspace dimension.

Shhhh, you'll upset the ents.

But it seems like the actual measure is less important in this action, in comparison to how it drops the brass and where you put it back.

 

[Potatohead]

Did someone say slamfire?

Gives me the heeby jeebies every time.

 

[lysanderxiii]

Just make sure the primer is flush or slightly below.

You know, all the Mk318 mod 0 ammunition has Federal Gold Medal Match primers....of all the PIP studied done on that ammunition overly sensitive primers was never one of them.

 

[Elkins45]

I don't need small base dies for mine.