OK to pack heat at U., says Utah's high court

[Car Knocker]

OK to pack heat at U., says Utah's high court
By Pamela Manson
The Salt Lake Tribune




Posted: 1:54 PM- The state Supreme Court ruled Friday that the University of Utah has no right to ban guns on campus, rejecting the argument that prohibiting firearms is part of the school's power to control academic affairs.

Writing for the 4-1 majority, Justice Jill Parrish said case law "is incompatible with the University's position." "We simply cannot agree with the proposition that the Utah Constitution restricts the legislature's ability to enact firearms laws pertaining to the University," Parrish wrote.

The issue of whether the state constitution allows schools to set their own firearm policies heated up in 2002 when the U. filed a lawsuit seeking to uphold its longtime policy of banning guns on campus. Based on state law at the time, 3rd District Judge Robert Hilder ruled in 2003 that the gun ban was legal. The state then appealed to the Supreme Court.

Soon after that, state lawmakers passed a bill in 2004 to overturn Hilder's decision that said only the Legislature can set gun policy. U. trustees voted unanimously soon after to maintain its policy prohibiting students, faculty and staff from bringing guns onto campus.

The Attorney General's Office argued that the university has no power or autonomy under the Utah Constitution to ignore state law.

The U., while acknowledging that the Legislature has general control and budgetary supervision over the school, insisted that it is an autonomous entity that can disregard a law that inteferes with internal academic affairs.
The state Supreme Court majority disagreed.

"Indeed, the University's claim is unsupported by the text of our state's constitution, its historical context, or the prior decisions of this court," the ruling says.

In a dissent, Chief Justice Christine Durham said the framers of the Utah Constitution "intended to secure the University's 'protection and defense' by perpetuating its autonomous control over internal academic affairs." She also wrote, "Applying, as they do, only to University employees and students, and only while these individuals are on the University campus, these policies merely reflect the University's judgment on an issue that is within the scope of its academic expertise - namely, the appropriate means by which to maintain an educational environment in its classrooms and on its campus." U. officials planned a press conference this afternoon to discuss the court ruling.

[email protected]

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4307062

 

[azredhawk44]

Excellent.... too bad that this decision was not based on Federal law and from one of the US Circuit Courts or even the Supreme Court though...

Makes Utah look more promising

Except for the fake beer...

 

[ProguninTN]

Go UT

This is good for Utah. Now if only this could happen in more states.

ProguninTN

 

[Ben Shepherd]

We never really doubted this outcome. Most were of the opinion that the U had missed the legislatures intent on our CCW law.


NICE TO FINALLY HAVE IT SETTLED THOUGH!!!

 

[Car Knocker]

Actually, the ban really had no more effect on non-students and non-emplyees than a similar ban at a store. It was a matter of school policy and violation was not illegal. Students and employees, on the other hand, were subject to disciplinary action.

 

[Car Knocker]

NICE TO FINALLY HAVE IT SETTLED THOUGH!!!

Only took 2 years! But yes, it was worth the wait. Perhaps the University will be more responsive to legislative intent and perogatives in other areas also.

 

[SomeKid]

The U., while acknowledging that the Legislature has general control and budgetary supervision over the school, insisted that it is an autonomous entity that can disregard a law that inteferes with internal academic affairs.

So, they thought they were to be given money, and they could ignore laws as they wished.

Talk about living in a fantasy land.

 

[xds&gsps]

Posted by Car Jacker

Actually, the ban really had no more effect on non-students and non-emplyees than a similar ban at a store. It was a matter of school policy and violation was not illegal. Students and employees, on the other hand, were subject to disciplinary action.

That is what I thought, they need to work on the community college now. Students/faculty are not allowed to carry there last I had heard.

This is a good day for Utah especially with all the bad press we have had with the dear ole mayor of SLC & his protests.

 

[Car Knocker]

SomeKid,

As I recall, at the time the U dug it's heels in, some of the legislators were talking about cutting their funding or cutting administrator's salaries. Cooler heads prevailed and brought it to court and established a precedent that should apply to all publically-funded universities and colleges in the state and also, incidentally, firmly establishes the Legisature's authority over state-funded semi-autonomous institutions.

xds&gsps,

This ruling should apply to all public institutions of higher learning in the state, I believe. Of course, the private institutions such as Westminster and BYU are a different story.

 

[SLCDave]

I bet there are still metal detectors at the game tomorrow night.

 

[Car Knocker]

I bet there are still metal detectors at the game tomorrow night.

Yes, there will. The U is taking it to federal court:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=478103

Supreme Court Says University of Utah Can't Ban Guns
September 8th, 2006 @ 4:09pm
Richard Piatt Reporting

The Utah Supreme Court says concealed weapons are allowed on the University of Utah campus. For years, the U has enforced its own policy, banning all weapons, but that policy was contrary to state law.

Even with this ruling---which took more than two years---the University of Utah's President says concealed weapons will still be banned from campus. That is until a federal court case is resolved on this issue.

Still, this Utah Supreme Court ruling is significant. It says that people who have a concealed weapon permit are allowed to carry their weapon at the U, just as they can everywhere else in the state. The University has long insisted guns on campus were contrary to a healthy learning environment, but the Legislators say state law is state law, no matter where you are.

Today the Attorney General says the Supreme Court agrees.

Mark Shurtleff, Utah Attorney General: "Although people have long thought this case was about guns, it's really about the rule of law, and who sets the law and who has to obey the law. And the message this decision says today is no one is above the law."

Michael Young, President, University of Utah: "Our belief is that it is incumbent on us to keep students as safe as possible, where free and open dialogue can occur, without threat of physical harm of any sort."

From here, the case will go back to Federal Court. In 2004, Judge Dale Kimball said he would not consider the U of U gun ban case until after the state courts have ruled. Now that federal case can move forward.

To the U that means the case is unresolved. The U President says guns will still be banned on campus.

The issue of gun owners' rights is an emotional issue. It's been hidden under the surface in Utah for a while. This ruling now brings it back to the limelight.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Our belief is that it is incumbent on us to keep students as safe as possible, where free and open dialogue can occur, without threat of physical harm of any sort.

If the school actually meant a single word of that, it would sit down, shut up, and respect the right of college students to keep and bear arms.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I fail to comprehend how any even partially rational human being could argue that my walking across the campus with a pistol in a holster (not entering any buildings or doing anything on campus other than being in transit) in any way affects the university's internal academic affairs.

 

[Car Knocker]

This is my comment from elsewhere:

In this instance, the gun issue is incidental. What is really being debated is whether the University can tell the Legislature to go pound sand at will. This has been in the making for some time and if it wasn't guns, it would have been something else that brought us to this point.

If you think about it, the University is using the concept of "academic freedom" much like the federal government uses the commerce clause - it essentially covers everything under the sun. The University is using this issue in it's bid to become a fully autonomous, taxpayer-funded institution with absolutely no state oversight. That is what this is about.

 

[pete f]

The issue of Academic Freedom has nothing to do with this case, no matter what the board of regents, etal care to think. The state is merely saying that if you are legal to carry a gun elsewhere, you are legal to carry on campus. The State is not telling them who to hire, who to fire, what professors get tenure or what courses get taught. All the state is doing is acting on a constitutional issue, the same as saying that girls must get the same opportunity as boys, that blacks and asians get the same options as whites and hispanics. If the U really believed that they needed freedom from all outside influences why do no then not ban alcohol, or ban banning alcohol, after all, they are all big college students who need all the freedom they can have to explore learning, oh wait, freedom, you either have it or you don't.....

It is just big brother liberalism thinking that all people need the elite's help in thinking the right thoughts so they protect themselves from themselves.

 

[dillonuser]

The U of U has been caught breaking the law again. This is nothing new for them.
There is a law in Utah called the "Mandatory pound seizure law". This law gives the "right" for State run educational institutions to purchase animals from all municipal pounds (your Fido) for use only in the research laboratories. The U of U got caught selling these animals to private labs,at a profit.

I went there 4+ years and would never go back. I know professors that feel the same as me.

The old president, Chase Petersen tried to get the U richer by changing the name of the medical center to someone who promised $15M if they named it after James Sorensen. This requires approval by the Board of regents. Finally got thrown out and Sorensen withdrew his money. Public embarassment to the max.

They should have another offer from Grey Poupon Mustard. Then we could call it Poupon U. That would fit because they have no concern for your rights.

 

[MechAg94]

Sounds like the state should pass a law firing 10% of the faculty, staff, and administrators. Decimation might get their attention just as well.

 

[Car Knocker]

I've noticed that university funding seems to be a bit tighter these days, despite the budget surplus.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Indeed. I believe these folks will lose in federal court.

You know what, though? These guys dragged their feet and whined so much, that once they loose, students who have CFP's should start open carrying. Yes, you HEARD ME. Start open carrying as soon as the federal courts are done with the case.

 

[Car Knocker]

Well, since a permit is not required for open carry here, anybody would be able to open carry.

 

[Gray Peterson]

Well, since a permit is not required for open carry here, anybody would be able to open carry.

Actually, you need a CFP to open carry a loaded handgun in Utah. Loaded is defined as having a bullet in the chamber. This is why OpenCarry.org regards Utah as a "licensed open carry" state.,

 

[Car Knocker]

Actually, you need a CFP to open carry a loaded handgun in Utah.

True, but you didn't specify loaded (per Utah definition) in your post. By the way, a revolver also requires an empty chamber under the hammer to be considered not loaded.

 

[Gray Peterson]

True, but you didn't specify loaded (per Utah definition) in your post. By the way, a revolver also requires an empty chamber under the hammer to be considered not loaded.

But what good is a gun if it ain't loaded?

Hair splitting!

 

[ProguninTN]

If the school actually meant a single word of that, it would sit down, shut up, and respect the right of college students to keep and bear arms.

Standing Wolf got it. Students should not be disarmed. What are they to do when confronted vy dangerous criminals on the loose. (Anybody remember what happened at VA Tech recently ?)

 

[Car Knocker]

But what good is a gun if it ain't loaded?

You're right. A 686+ with only 5 loaded chambers or a Glock with a full magazine and an empty chamber is absolutely useless.