ok to shoot +p in non +p gun?
- Thread starter Frank1991
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It probably wouldn't hurt it, but why stress the gun? There's not an appreciable amount of difference in recoil between the two that you would need to actually practice with the +p to be proficient. I would use the standard .38spl for practice and just carry the +p's. Maybe shoot a cyclinder of the +p's if it makes you feel better, but not on a regular basis.
MCgunner
Member
What he said
mtnbkr
Member
Shoot enough to confirm POI with your chosen load and practice with standard pressure.
Recoil and POI is close enough between standard and +P for it not to be an issue with practice. In my M37, the +P hit about an inch or two lower, but in my old M36 (also not +P rated), the two POIs were the same.
FWIW, I put 10rounds of +P 158gr LSWC-HP through my M37 at it's first range trip and I can't tell at all that it loosened it up at all. Since I want to check two other loads, I'll probably end up shooting 5-10 of each and then only shoot +p VERY rarely, maybe 5 rounds a year. The rest of my shooting will be with standard pressure ammo.
Chris
Recoil and POI is close enough between standard and +P for it not to be an issue with practice. In my M37, the +P hit about an inch or two lower, but in my old M36 (also not +P rated), the two POIs were the same.
FWIW, I put 10rounds of +P 158gr LSWC-HP through my M37 at it's first range trip and I can't tell at all that it loosened it up at all. Since I want to check two other loads, I'll probably end up shooting 5-10 of each and then only shoot +p VERY rarely, maybe 5 rounds a year. The rest of my shooting will be with standard pressure ammo.
Chris
mtnbkr
Member
BTW, there's roughly 2000psi difference in chamber pressure between Standard and +P (loads from Corbon and Buffalo Bore might take it a bit further). That's not much. You can have a variance larger than that just from factors such as powder measure fluctuations, brass thickness, and bullet seating depth.
Chris
Chris
tbeb
Member
In the past I would've said go for it, but I've recently changed my opionion. A limited amount of +P shouldn't blow up the gun, but it will accelerate wear. Someday it will need a trip to the gunsmith. I'd use a non +P Safestop www.safestop.net 148 gr. cup faced, plated wadcutter which does about 700 fps from a 2" barrel. It ain't cheap, because if you have one 50-round box delivered it figures to about $.96 per round. I used to own a model 37. I had some 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutters that did 700 fps from it's 2" barrel. Anything more than that was hard to control. Or, use non +P Federal/Remington 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutter. Either should give good penetration. (If I wanted to use +P in an airweight then I'd probaby use the Remington Golden Saber 125 gr.)
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I am one of the few who has long argued that factory +P is really nothing to write home about but I am just a bit leery of guns with alloy frames. I don't like to carry ammo that I don't practice with so I don't recommend +P in alloy guns. Many do it without harm but alloy gives me the willys. That's why I don't own any alloy revolvers. I prefer a few more ounces of weight and the peace of mind that comes with tempered steel.
MCgunner
Member
It would take quite a bit of shooting, even in a not +P rated gun, to get it loosened up much. I wouldn't and don't worry about it. I shoot a Taurus +P rated gun with an alloy frame and carry +P. I shoot 158 grain SWC for practice and notice, actually, a little more recoil with the standard SWC stuff! The +P I'm using is Speer's 135 grain bullet. The 158 causes more recoil force. It shoots higher, about the only reason I can see for switching. I buy 130 round nose ball occasionally. It's not quite as accurate in my revolver, but the POI is a lot closer to my carry load. I've been thinking I'll just start practicing with that. I worry more about remembering sight picture than I do from the piddlin' recoil of a .38 load.
gunfan
Member
Why batter the piece with extensive use of high-pressure loads? What's that going to prove? Buy a revolver that's rated for the cartridge and be done with it.
Scott
Scott
mtnbkr
Member
Who said anything about battering the gun with extensive use. I think the general consensus was to shoot just enough to confirm your POI and practice with standard pressure loads.gunfan said:
Chris
What Chris said. Fire enough to make sure the revolver shoots POI with it, and practice with standard loads. Carry with +P.
That's what I do with my 1970's model 36.
That's what I do with my 1970's model 36.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
I wouldn't. I think it makes more sense to buy the right gun than stress the wrong one.
mtnbkr
Member
That's part of the problem. We're getting mixed signals from S&W about the suitability. I've been told by S&W that the M37 IS +P rated. Frank1991 has heard the opposite.Standing Wolf said:
Chris
Ask yourself whether you would shoot Cor-Bon full power .45 Colt ammunition in a first generation blackpowder Colt Single Action Army.
If the answer is 'No that would be stupid.' then you have the answer as to whether it is prudent to fire +P ammunition in a non +P rated revolver.
If the answer is 'No that would be stupid.' then you have the answer as to whether it is prudent to fire +P ammunition in a non +P rated revolver.
mtnbkr
Member
That's not anywhere close to the same pressure difference. +P 38special is roughly only 2k PSI more than standard. "Ruger" level 45Colt ammo develops roughly twice the pressure of standard pressure 45Colt (12k vs 25k). Not to mention that a First Gen BP Colt is significantly different than modern single action guns in stength. That's like running 357mag in a 38special.Onmilo said:
Chris
The problem is you are asking about the new standard production M37 which is built on the new J-Magnum frame and is +P rated. Frank1991 is talking about a revolver that was built on the old J-frame that wasn't +P rated. The same named revolver, but built on 2 different frames. In 1997 with the M37-3 they went to a bigger stronger frame.
i have an early 1990's S & W model 38 alloy that is not +P rated - I have put a few +P rounds through it with no problems but, I have a friend who tried some +P's in an older Taurus model 85 and it jammed up on him...he said that after firing the +P the cylinder would not turn...He managed to get it open and after that it was ok with regular .38's.
I think the issue is the way the cylinder latches ... don't the +P newer models have a different (multiple?) latch system for the cylinder?
I think the issue is the way the cylinder latches ... don't the +P newer models have a different (multiple?) latch system for the cylinder?
mtnbkr
Member
Um, no, we're talking about the same revolver. I bought one of the ones he's referring to. I also contacted S&W and gave them both the serial number and the distributor's name.Majic said:
Chris
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