OK, which budget bolt rifle

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chaim

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After this thread ( http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=162366 ) I've pretty much decided to wait on the Winchester M70 Featherweight Classic. I love the look but I won't try to get the Walmart special M70 and try to put it on the Featherweight stock, and I do need to stay inexpensive right now.

So, I'm leaning towards the M70, but I want feedback on a few other options. I want to stay as cheap as possible due to budget constraints and due to the fact that I probably will be buying a single shot soon as well so I want to be around $300 if possible and certainly below $400. I'd prefer a "combo" with a cheap scope that I'd replace later, but a gun with irons will be ok as well. Short of coming into a great used deal, here are the likely options (more or less in order):

-Winchester M70 at Walmart. Even with the scope combo they are in my price range, they are good guns, and the polymer stock, while ugly, will last forever.

-Savage Package: I had a Savage in 30-06 I sold a year ago or so (not with the scope package). It was a good gun. This time I'd probably get the combo (the one I had did have irons but I never did add the scope) and I'd definately go for a lighter caliber. I could probably get the package with a wood stock for under my max but it would be over my preference, or I could go with the ugly polymer stock for near my preferred price and well under the upper limit.

-Charles Daly Mauser M98: Classic action, good basic gun, ugly but functional polymer stock. How easy will it be to get bases for this one? The MSRP is a bit over my max, and I haven't seen them locally, so I'm not sure what I'd be paying out the door? Could I get one with a cheap Tasco scope (to start with) for the price range I want? The Daly is made in the former Yugoslavia but I don't remember which of the current countries. Does anyone know if they are up to the quality of the pre-break-up Yugo guns?

-The Mossberg someone here picked up for $249 at Walmart ( http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=161840 ). I'll see if Walmart has them around here for that. Is this a Mauser action? Is it based on something else? Is it a fairly unique action? How good are they?

-Other possibilities....
The cheaper Remington 700 (but in my price range it would be tough, esp. w/ even cheap glass, plus I think I'd prefer the M70 even without the "classic" action). A Howa package wouldn't be that much over my top range, but my top range is a reach right now. I'd love a CZ 550 but I'd be over my limit and I'd have to go with one with irons only for now (and the irons are only on the more expensive LUX model).

One possibility is, I'm considering a bear defense gun when camping. I know, there is a very low possibility of a bear attack when camping, it really is an excuse for a big bore lever gun (.454, .480 Ruger, .44mag, .444Marlin or less likely .45-70). However, calibers like 6.5x55 and above would likely be good for bear defense as well. A bear attack is unlikely. So, I just might postpone the big bore lever gun yet again, wait a bit longer for the bolt gun, and get a Howa, CZ or nicer Winchester afterall. However, I'm not sure a scoped bolt gun is the best gun for bear defense when camping (not really very "handy").

Edit:

Oh yeah, I'm not a "made in the USA" only kinda guy, but it is a plus. I know the Savage is made in the USA, as is the Remington (which I'm probably not going to go with). Is the budget version of the Winchester US made? How about the Mossberg?

And lets add the Weatherby Vanguard series (for pretty much all the budget bolts): This one has the Weatherby name and seems available at decent prices at Walmart (under $400 at full price, less if you can find a sale). I know nothing about the actual quality (probably good if it carries the Weatherby name) or where it is made.
 
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I'd say if you're leaning toward the M70 combo, go with it. It's kind of like taking a test -- if you go over it afterwards and change your fiirst answers, you are likely to be wrong.

The Savage is another good gun -- as are the Stevens and Mossberg.

For bear, I'd want something heavy, but not necessarily a "pumpkin roller" like the .45-70 or .444 Marlin. A 7mm-08 would do as well, and be a very versatile rifle for about anything you want to hunt.
 
For bear, I'd want something heavy, but not necessarily a "pumpkin roller" like the .45-70 or .444 Marlin. A 7mm-08 would do as well, and be a very versatile rifle for about anything you want to hunt.
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I don't hunt. The bear comments were a possible way to justify going more expensive (though I'd need to wait a bit longer) if I could reasonably use the bolt rifle for bear defense when camping. I have been/had been thinking about a big bore lever rifle for bear defense when camping, and if the bolt would work it would save the money on the lever rifle. A few reasons I probably won't actually do this: (1) a bolt rifle with scope is much longer and heavier than the lever rifle and not really handy enough for a defensive gun (against people or bears), (2) I really want to get a big bore lever gun within the next 6 months or so (the bear defense is more an excuse so I have a reason- have to be practical ;) ), (3) putting off the purchase to get the nicer gun will mean too much wait for the bolt rifle (I figure I'll get the less expensive bolt rifle in the next month or two to get into bolt rifles again and improve my skills, then later within a couple years I'll get a really nice one in another caliber). Anyway, I was just thinking out loud (or on the keyboard).
 
You should always get what you want.

But you can get a bolt gun that is no longer or heavier than a lever action -- and given the calibers you suggest for the lever gun, light weight is not an un-mixed blessing.

If I were interested in a light-weight, shootable rifle I'd be tempted to go with a Winchester Model 70 Compact in 7mm-08. This rifle has a stock designed for a woman or young boy, but a thicker pad, or even a slip-on pad would make it fine for a full grown man.
 
Big Bore?

Just to throw out there for you, You said that you were going to get a big bore lever action. May I suggest the Marlin 45-70? If you hand load these right you can get damn near the balistics of a factory 458. you want to stop a bear in its tracks then I would go with nothing less than a .45 cal. of course any smaller really isn't a big bore now is it? Another road you could take is to get a pistol for protection against bears and people. They are a lot easier to handle in a frantic situation. I would go with a 454 casull because once again the ballistics can really be hiked up by handloading. I have got that pistol to shoot almost at 45-70 velocitys. Factory of course
 
Vern Humphrey said:
You should always get what you want.

But you can get a bolt gun that is no longer or heavier than a lever action -- and given the calibers you suggest for the lever gun, light weight is not an un-mixed blessing.

If I were interested in a light-weight, shootable rifle I'd be tempted to go with a Winchester Model 70 Compact in 7mm-08. This rifle has a stock designed for a woman or young boy, but a thicker pad, or even a slip-on pad would make it fine for a full grown man.
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Well, on the reasons I wouldn't go with a bolt rifle instead of the light lever rifle for bear defense I left one out- speed. Generally, follow up shots in a lever rifle in trained hands will be a lot quicker than in a bolt rifle in trained hands. Add to that, I've been shooting my 30-30 lever rifle for about 5 years now and I have one in .45LC that I take with me to the pistol ranges on at least half my trips to the pistol range, so I have a lot of practice with them. I haven't even owned or shot a bolt rifle in over a year (last shot them a little before I sold both my centerfire and .22lr bolt rifles without getting around to replacing them). Even when I had the Savage 30-06 and Remington .22lr bolt rifles they were accurate, but I wasn't particularly fast with them.

Anyway, I think I'm not really after a lightweight bolt rifle right now (maybe later once I have a few, and I'm more practiced, so I can specialize more). Since it will be my only centerfire bolt rifle for now I want one that is basically a do anything rifle. I'm not a hunter but I want it to be theoretically huntable (I'm not going to pick up hunting, but I like that it could be used for deer hunting), but I also want reasonable accuracy and comfort at the range. A lighter or smaller bolt rifle won't meet the second criteria.

As for 7mm-08, that is one of the calibers that I'm more interested in. However, if I go for the bargain guns and want to try to find a sale price, I'll probably have to go with what is in stock which could be anything (and most likely .243, .270 or another 30-06).
 
The Mossberg is made in the USA. It has proven that it will hold it's zero between trips to the range. It has also proven to be a 1.5 MOA rifle (from a rest) with Federal's "Fusion" ammo (the 130 grain stuff).

It comes with bases factory installed, so you save a few bucks there.

It has a better trigger than the non-accutrigger Savages and Stevens rifles. While the trigger doesn't matter too much off a bench, I find it much more difficult to shoot in the field with a bad trigger.

Overall, I am quite happy with my purchase, and I was admittedly a borderline "rifle snob" before I bought it.
 
FWIW my next bolt rifle will be a Savage in 7mm-08. I like the accuracy I've experienced with Savage, and there's the plus of being able to change barrels yourself if you're ever so inclined.

I also like Winchester and Remington, but haven't really warmed up to their "budget" models.
 
I looked at the Mossberg ATR 100 recently and was not impressed by its epoxyed on barrel nut.

I'd suggest Savage or Stevens in .308 with the best glass you can afford or wait until you can buy something better.

David
 
only1asterisk said:
I looked at the Mossberg ATR 100 recently and was not impressed by its epoxyed on barrel nut.
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Um, it isn't epoxyed on. It is pretty much exactly the same as the Savage nut, but uses a hole that a spanner-type wrench can engage to be turned instead of flat sides. The hole is underneath, facing the stock.
 
The one I saw was definitely epoxied. It oozed out and onto the barrel. Just a cheap touch that turned me off.

David
 
I'd say if you're leaning toward the M70 combo, go with it
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Well, it looks like I won't be buying the "Walmart Special" M70, at least not from Walmart. It appears that there may not be any Maryland Walmarts that carry guns anymore- I've checked several lately and not one carries guns, and today I asked about it and the guy couldn't tell me if any still do (apparently "most" local Walmarts stopped carrying them in April). The Walmart website has a listing of guns that can be ordered in stores, but I suspect that you need to find a store where they sell guns in order to order them. At any rate, the discount combo version doesn't seem to be on the website anyway.

As for the other options I was most strongly considering, I haven't actually seen the Mossberg or Daly anywhere but the internet and the only place I've seen the Weatherby Vanguard was at a Walmart. Maybe I'll just pick up a Remington 710 :evil:

So, I checked Dick's Sporting Goods today. They have a couple Savage 111 package deals with the cheap polymer stock, cheap 3-9x40mm scope, and the "Accutrigger" for $329.99-369.99 in 30-06, .243 or 22-250. The $329.99 version was in 30-06, the others were $369.99. Doesn't seem like a bad deal, and the ability to buy on layaway makes it even easier. If I go this way I'd probably prefer the .243, but it may be worth the $40 savings to go with the 30-06 (for the $40 I'd save I could buy reloading dies, some bullets, powder, and brass for 30-06, still have some money left, and I could probably reload low recoil, maybe .243 recoil, 30-06 with the potential for much greater range and power when I wanted to go full power).

I still need to check Bass Pro Shops to see what they have, and I'll check a local shop that carries a lot of used guns (including typical commercial bolt guns). I may also just go with Auction Arms and see what deals I can find (I saw a few decent deals there the other day). At the moment I'm leaning towards putting either a .243 or 30-06 Savage on layaway at Dick's. In fact, when I was walking to the car I almost turned back around to do it.
 
My cousin bought a 'budget model 70' at Wal-Mart and it's exactly that... no frills whatsoever. It shoots just fine. Has a LONG barrel. (26")

Savage offers a heck of a rifle for the money, but those 'package deals' are usually Simmons scopes and aluminum rings.

It would be netter to buy a rifle with decent iron sights and save up for a reasonable scope with steel rings.

I threw away the aluminum rings that came with my Savage 116. That rifle is a tack driver. (1/2 inch 3 shot groups @ 100 yards and I've killed a lot of game with it.)
 
...those 'package deals' are usually Simmons scopes and aluminum rings.
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Dr. Rob is correct, those "package deals" are no deal at all. They are simply unloading some cheap POS scope and rings that no one would buy otherwise. Trying to go as cheap as possible is not a good strategy when looking to buy either a rifle or optics. You would be much better served to save your money until you can afford something decent. Just MHO.

Don
 
I'd avoid Savage rifles. Just my opinion, but your money would be better spent on a Rem 700 or Win 70, much better guns. I'd also look at Howa. They have Weatherby actions and are great guns for the money and often overlooked. Just remember in new firearms, cheaper is usually not better.
 
todd-45 said:
I'd avoid Savage rifles. Just my opinion, but your money would be better spent on a Rem 700 or Win 70, much better guns. I'd also look at Howa. They have Weatherby actions and are great guns for the money and often overlooked. Just remember in new firearms, cheaper is usually not better.
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By much better, are you referring to fit and finish, or accuracy? I only ask because I have yet to find a Remington 700 that shot as well out of the box as the recent Savages with accutrigger rifles that I have shot off the bench.

I've shot a lot of Remington 700's.
 
I'd recommend looking into some used Milsurp guns. Either a Swiss K31, which has wicked fast follow up shots due to the straight-pull bolt and is dead accurate, or possibly some type of Mauser.

Both guns are better quality than any $300 modern bolt action you will find, plus you already said you like the Mauser action. Ammo-wise, the K31 in 7.5x55 runs about the same price as 30-06, but isn't available in the corner store. The 8mm Mauser on the other hand is very easy to find.

If you are looking to scope the rifle, you can get a clamp on scope mount for the K31 from Brownells for about $50, and a mount for a Mauser shouldnt be that hard to find.

Of course, if you're not interested in Milsurp, ignore what I said :)

If you do buy one, you'll not only save a bunch of money, but I think will be happier in the long run. Both guns are available in very good condition for around $100-150. I paid $130 for my handpick K31 at a gunshow and it is in better shape than pretty much any I have seen. Add a scope mount for $50 and a $100 scope and your at the $300 mark.
 
It would be netter to buy a rifle with decent iron sights and save up for a reasonable scope
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This is good advice, although quality sights are not exactly standard issue.

David
 
Sweat equity

is one way to get a good rifle for few bucks. My one and only centerfire bolt rifle is an 03A3 from a gun show, clumsily sporterized with a Fajen stock so loose-fitting that chips of wood would fly out of the wrist on firing because the top tang moved back about 1/8". Was already drilled and tapped, fortunately squarely. $175.

One Brownells Acraglas kit, one Timney Sportsman trigger, a decent but not pricey scope, and some checkering tools came next. Rebedded, stripped and refinished the stock then checkered it. Worked up a handload (Hornady 150 gr spire point, CCI large rifle primer, 51 grains 4064, neck-sized brass) and got me a pretty rifle which shoots sub-MOA, sometimes 1/2 MOA when I'm careful enough. Plus the pleasure, pride, and learning experience of the work.
 
Well here goes 2 cents, I like the Vanguards by Weatherby, $349 to 399.99 depending on whom you purchase them from. That being said the Mossberg, Savage, and Stevens are all a little less than the Vanguard. Question what do you really need / want? Meat on the table or a tack hammer for competition shooting. All the above rifles will put a round in the Boiler room and get you a tasty meal. None of them will get you a group inside 1 inch consitently without a serious investment. Time and or Monney you choose. My knock around guns are not tack hammers but have fed my family when I was blessed with a decent shot. I have yet to buy, build or own a tack hammer but when I do it will be a range gun that I dont have to drag around looking for game. My Knock Around Guns include Marlin 336 30-30, Sporterized 03A3, not my work and not good sporterizing either, and a Mossberg 500 with a rifled Slug barrel and a 28 in shot barrel. None were bought NIB either. There is another way to get good preformance with out serious investment. Ok I've used up 2 cents I think.
 
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