Okay guys. 30-06 or 7.62NATO in a sniper rifle?

[onewithgun]

I like the versatility of the dual cartridge rifle. 7.62 and .308. However.
The 30-06 is just more powerful and more commonly found or available.
I also hear that the 30-06 still holds the most records at Camp Perry.

What would you guys get, given the two choices?

This gun's main purpose is not going to be for hunting, it's going to be a "reach out and touch somebody" type gun if shtf. Although I will hunt with it, that's not the main reason for buying it.

I'm thinking that I might go .308 because it can chamber two cartridges and the two combined might have the same availability of the 30-06.

Any advice or criticism would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[JWarren]

I'm thinking that I might go .308 because it can chamber two cartridges and the two combined might have the same availability of the 30-06.

I haven’t seen “availability” and “.308/7.62x51” used in the same sentence without the word “no” in it for quite some time.


I have a ton of SA 7.62x51 in my closet, but to pun Outlaw Josey Wales, “Its not for eating. It’s for looking at.”



Soon, someone will be along here to explain that .308 is going to have a better ballistic profile than 30-06. They’ll explain it far better than I can.


-- John

 

[rino451]

I have a .308... that I'm going to give to the wife - she doesn't shoot that much. I'm going the Hathcock route and getting a .30-06 hunting rifle with good glass until I out shoot it - probably never happen. Now if I can only find an Model 70 with wood in 06...

 

[Bartkowski]

If you need that little extra speed and energy get the 30-06, and if you don't then get the .308.

Also, do you have much or any experience with high power rifles? If you don't you may want to shoot a .308 or 30-06 first, just because some people, although the guns don't "kick" that bad can't handle them.

 

[The Annoyed Man]

I disagree that the .30-06 is more commonly available than .308. I have never not been able to buy .308 in any place that sells ammunition that I've ever been in, and I have been in stores that were out of .30-06.

The basic load for a .308 shooting a 150 grain bullet is only about 5% down in power to compared to a .30-06, so it is realistically a non issue, as far as I am concerned. Although the .30-06 has the advantage with heavier bullets, in my world, it is not enough of an advantage to matter. If you go to federalcartridge.com and compare the ballistics for the .30-06 168 grain Sierra Matchking BTHP, you'll find velocities and energies virtually identical to the .308 168 grain Sierra Matchking. I have read, although I don't know if it is absolutely true, that the cartridge shape of the .308 case and the fact that it is more full of propellant with less unused space in the case makes the .308 an inherently accurate round with a degree of accuracy above that of the .30-06.

Also, I think that if you checked to see what the vast majority of long range competitive shooters today are using, you would probably find that shooters of .308 way outnumber shooters of .30-06. Those that aren't shooting .308s are shooting .300 Win Mags or some other caliber entirely like 6.5mm cartridges or .338 Lapua Magnums or something else.

That is not to say that the .30-06 is not a venerable cartridge with excellent performance and well worth looking into. But it is a 101 year old design, and there have been lots of advances in cartridge design since the .30-06 was invented, and the .308 is one of those more advanced designs. You have to remember that the .30-06 was developed less than 20 years after Alfred Noble first invented smokeless gunpowder, while the .308 was developed in 1952, almost 50 years later than the '06.

 

[Bartkowski]

I forgot to mention, and was reminded by the above post, if you are shooting bullets over 168gr. than the 30-06 is an even better choice.

Also what is wrong with the 30-06 and its old design? Is the 6.5swedish bad? What about guns, some advancements in them too, but why do most people want a pre 64 winchester other than collector value?

Not to be picking on you, I just disagree that because its old it isn't as good as something newer and supposedly more advanced.

 

[amprecon]

As I understand it, the commercial .308 is not supposed to be used in military rifles due to higher pressure loadings. Dimensionally they are very similar, but I believe that the military 7.62x51 has harder primers and thicker case walls than their commercial counterpart. That being said, I have only surplus military 7.62x51 for my SA M1A.
As for target shooting, I believe it was the 7.62x51 (.308) that overtook the .30-06 for better accuracy, so much so that they had to remodel the bullseye on the target to make the shots more challenging for the .308. As I understand it now though, the 5.56x45 has taken the top dog spot. But for versatility and general hi-power rifle usage, the .30-06 is very popular and accurate enough from most bolt actions for accuracy to not be that much of a concern.

 

[GunTech]

There is a lot of material that suggests the 308 is inherently more accurate than the 30-06, due to case shape. I do know that 308 far outnumbers 30-06 in LR matches. If you don't handload, there's not much difference.

Bear in mind that 308 is available in short actionsm, and there are many more turn key sniper systems in 308 than 30-06. If you want DBM like the Badger floorplate that uses AICS magazines, you're far better off with 308.

30-06 had such a small advantage over 308 that folks who need more veocity tend to leap frog 30-06 and go to 300 WM.

YMMV

 

[Float Pilot]

The 30 caliber cartridge of 1906 was an improvement of the 30 caliber cartridge of 1903. Both the Springfiled and the 30-06 were simply improved (and oversized) American versions of the 7mm mauser and the Model 98 Mauser action.

Jump forward 50 years. The 7.62 Nato was developed to replace the 30-06.

Since the 1950s a huge amount of time and money has been spent on making the 7.62mm nato round more accurate and more useful for law enforcement and military precision marksmanship.

 

[JWarren]

As I understand it, the commercial .308 is not supposed to be used in military rifles due to higher pressure loadings. Dimensionally they are very similar, but I believe that the military 7.62x51 has harder primers and thicker case walls than their commercial counterpart.

You are correct about the cases, primers, and chamber pressures. That said, my Saiga 308 LOVES Winchester Ballistic Tip 150 grain. I use it for hunting season -- until I start reloading sometime next year.


-- John

 

[elmerfudd]

I don't think it matters. Both will do the job adequately and the 30-06 only has a slight edge in power and even then only if you're using heavier bullets and a long barrel. But then again, the .308 supposedly has more inherent accuracy. I've shot some very accurate 30-06's though, so I don't think that's very significant either. If it really matters to you, choose something bigger like a 300 Win Mag or a .338 Lapua.

 

[onewithgun]

Thanks everybody.

As usual. You've all provided me with a wealth of information that I'll have to consider.

I'll keep you all posted on my next purchase.

 

[BAT1]

Ford vs Chevy

I have shot both. The 30-06 kicked harder, shot great. The .308 which was more comfortable, and was just as accurate. I have the .308. [Deer, Hogs, Defense]. I like the short action. I used to have a 7mm WSM, which out kicked them both. It fills the .30 caliber section of my collection. 20,30, 45, 12- Hunt. Great to 300 yds. .5 moa. Easy to hand load to 1/4 moa. Short action vs long action. More ump and distance = more recoil. Billions served with each.

 

[W.E.G.]

.308 is "short-action" design.

More compact rifle.


30-06 has a longer and heavier bolt.
30-06 has a longer and heavier receiver.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Both do the job very well but the 30-06 can handle the heavier bullets and you can increase the powder behind to roll that bullet along.
I have alway been a 30-06 man all of my life when it comes to .30 calibers I like that round heavy and fairly slow.

 

[ID_shooting]

I have both right now, a Win M70 Target in 30-06 and a Sav 110 carbine in .308. I will probably give one up this year, just don't know which one. Same concerns as have been posted here.

I have one concern that hasn't been gone over too much and since you state SHTF work, I will talk about that, ammo availability after the SHTF.

I can see two distinct camps and both have valid arguments. After a global/national SHTF event, ammo production for the private sector could halt. That said, the question of ammo replenishment comes up. for 30-06, every back country gas station, hardware store, tackle shop, and almost all sporting goods and gun shops carry 30-06. Some, at least here in the west do carry .308, but no where near the quantities of 30-06. But, with no govt need for 30-06, new production could fall off and thus make the current supply finite.

If the military still functions, there will be a continuing need for 7.62 NATO, which will shoot in most civilian .308 Win rifles. I do believe that the govt would have 7.62 in production and therefore, one could feasably barter, beg, steal new ammo if we were in a truely SHTF situation, at least till the military dropped 7.62 NATO as a current service round. This is part of why I keep a 9mm and a .223 around. If the military changes caliber, I will likely follow suit.

Some will say you could reload 30-06 but if you are forced to relocate, on foot even, packing up your reloading bench might be difficult at best.

I don't know what the best answer is, but this sure does require much deeper thought...

 

[Ash]

I have indeed been to stores that did NOT sell .308 but did sell 30-06. What store? The Wal-Mart in Columbia, Mississippi not only did not sell the ammo (in its older location) but did not then nor does it now sell .308 rifles. You can special order a 308, but you can't get one off the rack. Now, 30-06, 7mm mag, 270, those are all easy to get, but not .308.

I have rifles in both calibers. I prefer 30-06. Those who minimize the power of the 06 but emphasize the accuracy of the 308 are not really being genuine. The 06 is marginally more powerful and the 308 is marginally more accurate. For hunting, the 06 is quite simply superior because the 308 accuracy advantage is offset by the greater versatility of the 06. The 30-06 is undeniably the more versatile hunting round. The increased weight of the 06 rifle is hardly an issue as the weight increase is only marginal at best. And, there has been so much 30-06 ammo made in the United States, one will have to spend an awful long time in Mad Max territory for that to become an issue. I am very confident that 30-06 is easier to get than 308, if only marginally.

That said, for the sniping role, the accuracy becomes more important. It is true that short actions have a slightly shorter lock time, are somewhat handier, and have a greater accuracy potential. In the sniping role, there are no 30-06 rifles for many reasons (logistics one of the most important). If NATO used 30-06 in GP machine guns, of course, there would be very few 308 sniper rifles. Yet, the 308 is superior to the 06 in that role. Were I to wish to build a sniper's rifle, I would make it 308 and not 30-06. That goes for a precision competition rifle. I would take the 308 over the 30-06, as the marginally increased accuracy is all it takes to win a competition.

In other words, the 30-06 really is the better hunting round (even if for many, the 308 is good enough). The 308 is the better precision shooting/sniping round.

Ash

 

[The Annoyed Man]

Perhaps I should clarify what I said above...

If HUNTING is what this is all about, then even though I am a .308 fan, I would probably choose .30-06 for its ability to take a broader range of game. If SHTF was what this is all about (and I thought that was the premise of this thread... ...see OP), then the general availability of .308 through both civilian and military sources AND the slight accuracy advantage of the .308 for stand off shooting would make me choose that cartridge.

After all, we're not talking about game bigger than a zombie or a man. At 1,000 yards, a .308 will kill a commie, or a fascist, or an invader, or a zombie just as dead dead deadski as a .30-06, and you don't need a 220 grain bullet to do that. Obviously, if the SHTF scenario consisted of an assault upon all that is decent and good by large herds of moose (meeces?), then the '06 is the better choice. But Zombies are far more likely than Moose...

...at least in my considered opinion...

 

[USSR]

What would you guys get, given the two choices?

Easy, both.

.308 FN SPR in McMillan A5 with Leupie 3.5-10x40LR M3

.30-06 Krieger-built Winchester in McMillan A2 with Leupie 6.5-20x50LR M1

If you are going to buy a factory made rifle, your choice is easy as there are no quality factory made .30-06 tactical rifles available. Also, if you don't reload, the amount of Match ammo in .30-06 is limited, and it is extremely downloaded. That being said, if you have a quality smith build you a rifle in .30-06, and are prepared to load your own ammo with the heavy match bullets that the '06 likes so well, it is one hell of a LR cartridge.

Don

 

[Jim Watson]

Where do you live?
I don't want to be nearby when you start picking people off for their canned goods SHTF.