Old IMR 4227 vs New H4227 Load Data

[Nomad]

I have some older (late 70s early 80s) IMR 4227 which is in good condition. I know the current IMR 4227 and the current H4227 are essentially the same powder. However, does the IMR of yesteryear require me to use different data than the current H version?

If I go to their website IMR4227 is not listed as a load for 44 Spl but H4227 is. If I go to 44 Mag portion the IMR4227 is listed and H4227 is not. This leads me to believe they are not interchangeable and of course my original question is still is the old the same as the new?

 

[JohnM]

I consider them pretty close to the same.
With the IMR a bit hotter.
I drop the starting load with IMR a few grains less than the H load and go from there.

 

[AABEN]

All of my old books show a little hot loads. That was when every one did not sue some one when something went wrong. I do load some of my rifles from the old books. I have never had any thing go wrong when loading from the OLD books.

 

[rcmodel]

my original question is still is the old the same as the new?

No.
They never were the same.

IMR made it in WWII, and first sold it in pressure tested canister grade powder for reloading.

Hodgdon first sold it from .30 Carbine powder from leftover surplus WWII stocks.
That was not canister grade, and individual lots were blended in probably rail car size by the ammo plants to meet WWII .30 Carbine pressure specs.

They are very close to the same however, except for early surplus lots of H4227.
And you won't get in trouble if you start with published Starting Load data for either H or IMR and work up.

As you should always do with any powder, using any data.

rc

 

[buck460XVR]

When I e-mailed Hodgdon about this, they told me that they were not the same powders and load recipes were not interchangeable.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

When I e-mailed Hodgdon about this, they told me that they were not the same powders and load recipes were not interchangeable.

That is true.

Like said above, they are not and never were the same powder. Close yes, the same, no. It's like IMR4895 and H4895, close but not the same...

 

[Hammerdown77]

To confuse the matter even more, Hodgdon discontinued H4227 in their lineup when they bought IMR, and the NEW IMR 4227 is actually Hodgdon's H4227 in an IMR 4227 can.

So if you have an old can of IMR4227 and a can of H4227, they are not the same. If you have a newly purchased lot of IMR4227 and a can of H4227, they are probably the same.

 

[buck460XVR]

.
To confuse the matter even more, Hodgdon discontinued H4227 in their lineup when they bought IMR, and the NEW IMR 4227 is actually Hodgdon's H4227 in an IMR 4227 can.

So if you have an old can of IMR4227 and a can of H4227, they are not the same. If you have a newly purchased lot of IMR4227 and a can of H4227, they are probably the same.

This is the exact question I asked Hodgdon. Not trusting internet chatter, I went to the source. They may have lied to me so protect themselves legally, I dunno. There is plenty enough info out there on there, that one does not have to guess.

 

[243winxb]

4227 powders AR2205

IMR4227 & H4227 are the exact same powder made by ADI for Hodgdon, AR2205. Or are they? Old lots of IMR4227 were made in Canada & is different powder. Hodgdon MSDS > http://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html Always use a starting powder charge & work up. See this link for more powder info > www.photobucket.com/firearmsreloading Info under the pics, will give you links to more info.

 

[Hammerdown77]

This is the exact question I asked Hodgdon. Not trusting internet chatter, I went to the source. They may have lied to me so protect themselves legally, I dunno. There is plenty enough info out there on there, that one does not have to guess.

They probably told you that so that if you had H4227 and IMR4227 on your shelf, you wouldn't interchange the data, since they don't know whether your lot of IMR4227 is the old stuff, or the newer stuff that is actually the H4227 powder.

If your can of IMR4227 says made in Australia on it, then you have the same thing as H4227.

 

[buck460XVR]

They probably told you that so that if you had H4227 and IMR4227 on your shelf, you wouldn't interchange the data, since they don't know whether your lot of IMR4227 is the old stuff, or the newer stuff that is actually the H4227 powder.

If your can of IMR4227 says made in Australia on it, then you have the same thing as H4227.

No, they didn't tell me that. I asked them if the NEW IMR4227 was the same as the OLD H4227. I also gave them the lot # of the NEW can of IMR4227 that I had and if I could use OLD H4227 data for it. THEY told me NO on both counts. But then again, they might not know as much as the internet experts. If you want I can post the reply with the name of the tech support person, but I believe I already have in a previous post on the same subject.

 

[243winxb]

Hodgdon website, under Products-Smokeless, does not show H4227 as being a Hodgdon product. But is listed else where on there site.