I have several containers of 40+ yr old powder. (4327, 748, 2400). I have tried some light loads of each of them with no ill affects, or signs of over pressure. I expect to use them up but I'm wondering if anyone has any words of wisdom to share on them.
Old powder
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ReloaderFred
Member
Welcome to the forum.
When powder goes bad, it will have a red dust and a very acrid smell to it. I've only had one powder go bad over the years, and I'm still loading some powders that are older than what you're loading now.
I'm also assuming you meant IMR 4227 as the first powder........
Hope this helps.
Fred
When powder goes bad, it will have a red dust and a very acrid smell to it. I've only had one powder go bad over the years, and I'm still loading some powders that are older than what you're loading now.
I'm also assuming you meant IMR 4227 as the first powder........
Hope this helps.
Fred
BCRider
Member
A while back I bought out a big box of bullets,powder and primers. At first the powder was fine. But as I used it up over a couple of years I started getting more and more squibs. I finally came to the conclusion that the powder (old Bullseye) had given up the ghost and by opening and closing the can over the couple of years that it was letting out something that made it work. The last part of the last tin I poured out on the garden because of the roughly 1:50 that things gravitated to by the end.
At first I thought it was me but a couple of times the bullet only made it into the forcing cone so I simply knocked the bullets back into the casing. Later when I pulled the bullets from the casings at home they still had the powder in them.
I didn't notice much smell. And that seemed to be the issue in that case. New bottle of Bullseye have a MUCH stronger smell than what was in the old stuff. So I don't think that every powder develops any sort of sour smell. I think in this case the volatiles or active ingredients simply dissipated out into the air or were otherwise neutralized.
The stuff I was using was roughly 40 years old. Much of it came in the small snap cap 12 oz square tins from the late 60's and early 70's according to some long time shooters.
At first I thought it was me but a couple of times the bullet only made it into the forcing cone so I simply knocked the bullets back into the casing. Later when I pulled the bullets from the casings at home they still had the powder in them.
I didn't notice much smell. And that seemed to be the issue in that case. New bottle of Bullseye have a MUCH stronger smell than what was in the old stuff. So I don't think that every powder develops any sort of sour smell. I think in this case the volatiles or active ingredients simply dissipated out into the air or were otherwise neutralized.
The stuff I was using was roughly 40 years old. Much of it came in the small snap cap 12 oz square tins from the late 60's and early 70's according to some long time shooters.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
You got 3 good powders there. Like said above, if there is no discoloration and it doesn't smell bad you can use it. What are you loading?
Welcome to the forum...
Welcome to the forum...
SwaneeSR
Member
Welcome to the forum.
Good name choice..
Smokeless powder can usable for a long time. You did not say how you acquired the powder or the storage conditions. I assume the powder containers look good and do not show signs of moisture.
Do you just have 3 one pound containers or a truck load of the old powder?
Swanee
Good name choice..
Smokeless powder can usable for a long time. You did not say how you acquired the powder or the storage conditions. I assume the powder containers look good and do not show signs of moisture.
Do you just have 3 one pound containers or a truck load of the old powder?
Swanee
I have written extensively on the lifetime of gunpowder. Contrary to the expectations of shooters, and the immortality suggested by moronic gun writers, gunpowder does not last forever. In fact it is quite mortal.
These are threads which I provided information, a couple of which has pictures other forum posters.
Old Powder Caused Fire!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=788841
Old powder
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=787843
Shelf life of reloads?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=758305
Look at the pictures in this thread:
Has anyone else had Vihtavuori N140 corrode in loaded ammo?
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3745264
Old gunpowder outgasses nitric acid gas and that causes green corrosion inside the brass cases and split case necks. When the corrosion is extreme it will cause pin hole through corrosion of the case. I have seen all of these.
Gunpowder lifetime is unpredictable, a rule of thumb is 20 years for double based, 45 years for single based. Some fails sooner. Hardly any gunpowder is safe past 45 years. Your cans are forty something years old, it is time to shoot the stuff up as it is very, very old. Load it up and shoot it up. If you leave old gunpowder in cases for months to years, you might experience case neck cracking or brass cracks. I am experiencing this with mid nineties AA4064. The stuff has a neutral smell, still shoots well, no pressure indications, but it causes case neck cracks. Old gunpowder in bulk will autocombust. Old gunpowder will blow up your gun. If you notice pressure indications with normal loads, such as blown primers, sticky extraction, or blown case heads, stop using the powder. Heat is the worst enemy of gunpowder. Temperatures over 86 F accelerate the deterioration.
__________________
Accuracy is a skill acquired through constant practice.
Mostly 308 win right now, trying to work up a good load. The cans are in mostly good condition with a little surface corrosion and yellowing of paper, but the powder smells ok and so far no failures. Some of my powder is for pistol loads so haven't done any lately. All of it is less than 2 lbs per type.
Patocazador
Member
I was a reloading fool for about 15 years in the late '70s into the early '90s. I spent all my free time developing loads and shooting them. I took a couple of decades off and all the powder I'm shooting now is from back then.
It still shoots good and still kills deer.
It still shoots good and still kills deer.
Last summer I had 5 lbs. or H4831 left from a 25 pound metal tin purchased used in 1990. I had been keep pouring into smaller containers over time to keep most of the air out. I was planning to make up some deer loads for myself since everyone in my family has been shooting it for over 20 years. When I opened the container, I saw what appeared to be red cobwebs and Casper the RED Ghost started rising out by himself. I promptly fertilized my grass. My lawn never looked soooo green. Spontaneous combustion is possible.
Powder life is unpredictable some fails much sooner than later. One common test for gunpowder age is placing the suspect powder in an oven at 65 C (150 F) until it fumes. If the sample fumes within 30 days the lot in the field is either chemically tested for the percentage of stabilizer or it is simply scrapped.
This is from a 1969 Insensitive Munitions Symposium:
This is from a 1970 Symposium:
So what you see is Insensitive Munitions experts have determined that these lots of 35-37 year old WW2 powder were too old to retain in inventory. And mind you , this was in 1969 and 1970.
If there is anything that should be understood is that shoot up your ammunition and gunpowder. Don't buy old gunpowder at current prices, because it will not last as long as new, and watch for signs of breakdown.
Blue68f100
Member
I had a 1# can of W748 go bad last year. It was purchased in 1978, metal can.
sandhills writer
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I just used my last can of W 748, now I have the newer plastic jugs. The old 748 was at least 35 years old, and still worked fine in 408s.
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