Old Smith 38 ID

[bikejunky]

I ran across this old Smith this weekend. I am not 100% sure what it is. I think it is a Smith Pre M&P model 10. It only has the serial number and no model number or anything. Any help identifying it is appreciated. The finish isn't great but it was just a neat gun. Aany ideas on value either? Thanks









Thanks for your help.

Jeff

 

[tmccray45]

Looks just like my Model 10 .38 Special.

I have a question about my Model 10. As can be seen in the original poster's pictures, there is a small hole in the hammer, right next to the body of the pistol. It's there for a reason, but I cannot figure out why.

Any ideas?

 

[Checkman]

Well its a five screw so it was made before 1957. Looking at the ejector rod it's probably post WW2 and the grips aren't original. Those magna grips don't have the diamond around the screw so they're no later than 1969/1970. It's probably a M&P 4th change.

I don't have my copy of Supica and Nahas with me (Standard S&W catalog 2nd or 3rd editions) so I can't be more specific.

I also like the M&P's and older Model 10's. Especially with the tapered barrels. I like the Model 15 as well, but the old M&P take ne back to my youth when I watched all those old gangster flicks from the 30's and 40's.

Give us the first few digits of the serial number and we can give you a general DOB.

Old Fuff can give you all the details.

By the way don't shoot +P 38 rounds in it. Strictly the old 38 special load. I like to shoot the classic 158 grain lead round nose.

 

[isp2605]

I have a question about my Model 10. As can be seen in the original poster's pictures, there is a small hole in the hammer, right next to the body of the pistol. It's there for a reason, but I cannot figure out why.

Any ideas?

Pin that holds the firing pin on the hammer.

 

[Jim K]

It is an M&P (pre-Model 10) from about 1953. The serial number would let us make a closer estimate on the date of manufacture. Should be a very nice shooter.

Jim

 

[Old Fuff]

The serial number is stamped on the butt, and probably has a "S" or "C" prefix. It would help greatly if this gun's owner had posted it (using xx for the last two numbers). As it is I have to look for certain features it has or doesn't have to get an idea when it was made. Follow along:

It has a "short action" - identified by the hammer's shape. Introduced in 1948 at or about serial #S 991084.

"S" serial numbers end at #S 999,999 and new "C" serial numbers start at C 1 in 1948

Front sight shape changed from half-round to ramp style in 1952

Upper sideplate screw dropped in 1955

Became model 10 in 1957

Diamond around stock screw deleated in 1968.

So Detective Fuff would say that this is a pre-model 10, postwar Military & Police .38 Special revolver, manufactured sometime between 1948 and 1952. The stocks however are "incorrect for period," replacements, but still made by Smith & Wesson. It appears to be in pretty good shape, has a scarce (but not rare) 5" barrel, and is probably worth around $300.00.

So can you do this at home? Sure! Just buy a copy of Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson / 3rd. edition; and you'll be just as smart as I am... Or almost so.

 

[Ala Dan]

Old S&W M&P's are great finds- Enjoy~!

 

[Checkman]

Hey Old Fuff. I knew you'd come through with the info.

 

[Old Fuff]

Hey Old Fuff. I knew you'd come through with the info.

Well I'm hopelessly frustrated because I never got to be a who-done-it detective.

Just call me Gumshoe Fuff...

 

[bikejunky]

Serial Number

Thanks to all who have posted. The information is great. I just got home and checked the serial number. It is a C399XX. There is also another number where the serial number should be inside the cylinder, it is W738XX. Any more detailed information is appreciated.

Jeff

 

[Jim K]

A doff of the deer stalker cap to Old Fuff. I missed the front sight change that set the date back a year from my estimate.

Jim

 

[Old Fuff]

Jim Keenan:

I missed the front sight change that set the date back a year from my estimate.

Not necessarily. Smith & Wesson might have been using up older 5" barrels even as they introduced and started production on a newer style. The only way to know for sure would be to pay Smith & Wesson a $30.00 search fee and have the company historian, Roy Jinks, check it out in the records. He would nail it down to the day it was shipped.

bikejunky:

The number on the butt (C 39,9xx) is the serial number. The other one (W738xx) is an assembly number, stamped on the yoke and frame after they were individually fitted together. The revolver probably was made in 1948 or '49.

 

[Checkman]

I like the old S&W 38 K frame revolvers. So far they don't seem to be as popular as the N frames. However you never know how long this current state of affairs will last so I'm getting as many as I can while the prices are good.

 

[Old Fuff]

During a time period running from 1899 to perhaps recently, Smith & Wesson always made far more K-frame revolvers then N-frame. Looking at what I call the Golden Age, running from 1920 to about 1960, this was especially true. So finding exceptional buys in N-frames can be difficult as both shooters and collectors are interested in them. Unfortunately, because of some blabber-mouths on the Internet, the K-frames are being discovered, and the term "long action," is beginning to have meaning in ever larger circles. Still, the increased interest hasn't outstripped the available supply at this point.

That said, better examples seem to be increasing at an average rate of about $25.00 to $30.00 a year, with like-new/in-box doing a bit better. This is especially true of those with 2” to 3” barrels, while those with lengths of 5 to 6 inches are less popular (except with the Old Fuff). I too, am keeping an eye out…

 

[Checkman]

Well Old Fuff you are one of those loose lipped people. It's because of you that I've become a 38 K frame fan.

I used to be all about short barrels. Then I also discovered that 6" models aren't as popular or expensive. I've found some great K's and one real nice L frame 586(no dash w/modification) with a 6" barrel. Whoops now I'm a blabbermouth.:banghead:

 

[bikejunky]

While where at it

I have been on a rabid rampage to find as many good deals on old Smith revolvers as possible. Recentely I have stumbled across a 586 no dash 4" barrel Never fired, 681 no dash 4" with original box, I got 2 of the 65 3" Prelock from CDNN one is a -5 the other is a -6. And the one that keeps throwing me is the Model 19 I picked up. It is a 19 -3 with a target hammer and trigger? I have heard talk that these may be old FBI? guns. It is pinned and reccesed. Any help is appreciated.


Jeff

 

[Checkman]

The Model 19 could be had with the target trigger and hammer according to Supica and Nahas. How long is the barrel? The FBI did auhorize the 2.5" Model 19 at one time as well as the 3" Model 13.

 

[SaxonPig]

It looks like you have what is called a "Transitional Model" Military & Police. These were made after WW II using pre-war frames left over from before they switched to filling military contracts. In very nice shape these have some collector interest.

Looks like a 5" barrel (my favorite) and as noted the stocks are of the post 1967 type.

 

[isp2605]

The FBI did auhorize the 2.5" Model 19 at one time as well as the 3" Model 13.

For a while the Mod 13 was FBI issued. Quite a few of the agents bought 2.5" Mod 19 to carry instead of the issued 4" Mod 10 pencil barrel. 4" Mod 19 was also popular. One of the slickest at the time (1970s) was what the FBI issued their field office SWAT agents. 4" Mod 19 with round butts and stamped "NIS" (Naval Investigative Service). The actions were super slick.

 

[bikejunky]

My 19 is a 4" and the action is awesome. I don't have it in front of me know but will take a look and see if it has any different markings.

 

[Old Fuff]

SaxonPig:

It looks like you have what is called a "Transitional Model" Military & Police.

No such luck...

It has an early "short action" hammer.

bikejunky:

So far as I can determine the FBI never adopted the Model 19 (or 66). However they did authorize agents to carry privately purchased ones. So far as adopted revolvers are concerned, I don't believe the Bureau ever bought any with extra-cost target hammers and triggers.

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Mine has an "S" prefix, and a different hammer style.

Does that date it to before 1948?

It's a 5-screw and has no model # stamp.

Thanks,
Rick

 

[Old Fuff]

The "S" serial number series started at #S 811,120, on September 20, 1945. The "S" denoted that the revolver had a new hammer-block safety that was developed for the Victory Model, and introduced in 1944. The number (811,120) started off where commercial production of .38 Special revolvers ended in 1941. The series continued until March 22, 1948 when they reached #S 999,999 and couldn't go any higher. At this point they started the "C" series at C 1.

The 5-screw models were dincontinued in 1955.

Model numbers were not used until 1957, the purpose being that the numbers worked better in early computers used for record keeping.

I suspect that Rick O'Shea has one of the long-action "transitionals" that SaxonPig mentioned, but he'll need to post a picture of the gun showing the hammer to confirm this.

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Thank you for the information, Old Fuff.

I'll try to get a picture up later; I just did a little cleanup on the ol' girl, and she's in the range bag for a "function check".

Love these smooth old Smiths...

Rick

 

[Old Fuff]

Love these smooth old Smiths...

You don't know the half of it. Transitions as a rule are extra-smooth, or can easily be made so. I't not a sure thing, but look for extra-fine checkering on the hammer spur, and sort of a half-ball shape on the underside of the spur at the far end.