old Smith & Wesson
- Thread starter Pete01444
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DickM
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A picture would help, but it sounds like you've got an early .38 Military and Police Model of 1905, basically one of the predecessors to the Model 10 and the full range of K-frame S&Ws. "CTG" is just the abbreviation for "cartridge."
Radagast
Member
US Service CTG was the .38 long colt, it was issued between the .45 Schofield round and the .45 ACP round.
Usually these guns are chambered for the .38 S&W Special and marked .38 S&W Special & US Service CTG. The .38 Special was a stretched long colt cartridge, so both should chamber in a .38 special gun.
Per the Standard Catalog of S&W your gun was made in 1905 or 1906 and is a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905, also knows as the .38 Hand Ejector Military & Police, Third Model. It is the direct ancestor of the modern model 10, 64 & 67 revolvers, built on the K frame that was introduced in 1899.
Usually these guns are chambered for the .38 S&W Special and marked .38 S&W Special & US Service CTG. The .38 Special was a stretched long colt cartridge, so both should chamber in a .38 special gun.
Per the Standard Catalog of S&W your gun was made in 1905 or 1906 and is a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905, also knows as the .38 Hand Ejector Military & Police, Third Model. It is the direct ancestor of the modern model 10, 64 & 67 revolvers, built on the K frame that was introduced in 1899.
tipoc
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I hope you can see the markings on the barrel in the pics below.
Both early Hand ejectors in .38 Special. and target variations. The markings have a Maltese cross and read ".38 S&W Special & U.S. Service Cartridge"
Yep the .38 Special was an official U.S. military round. For a number of years about a century ago, S&W marked the barrels on .38s this way for the civilian market.
tipoc
Both early Hand ejectors in .38 Special. and target variations. The markings have a Maltese cross and read ".38 S&W Special & U.S. Service Cartridge"
Yep the .38 Special was an official U.S. military round. For a number of years about a century ago, S&W marked the barrels on .38s this way for the civilian market.
tipoc
Radagast
Member
Pete01444: I would guess that roughly half the total production of Military & Police revolvers was for the US Military or the British Commonwealth militaries, but that was during WWII. The Military & Police revolvers manufactured during the period that your gun was made were sold to Police Departments and civilians.
The nickel finish may have been done at the factory, it was an option both before and after the model of 1905, or it may be an aftermarket finish.
Colt beat S&W to market with a swing out cylinder gun, which, IRCC obtained an army contract, hence the long colt being 'US Service Cartridge'. S&W wasn't going to stamp .38 long colt on their guns! S&W, although late to market, had the better product which is still in production (with various changes) while Colt's product was discontinued years ago. At the time the Military & Police name was more a marketing ploy than anything else.
The nickel finish may have been done at the factory, it was an option both before and after the model of 1905, or it may be an aftermarket finish.
Colt beat S&W to market with a swing out cylinder gun, which, IRCC obtained an army contract, hence the long colt being 'US Service Cartridge'. S&W wasn't going to stamp .38 long colt on their guns! S&W, although late to market, had the better product which is still in production (with various changes) while Colt's product was discontinued years ago. At the time the Military & Police name was more a marketing ploy than anything else.
TheVirginian
Member
Well, it's still quite a nice piece. I had a blue Model 10 up until a few months ago. They sold them to anyone with the cash to buy them.
The military did use them but I have never seen a shiny one in the possession of any soldier on a battlefield other than George Patton. Him only in pictures.
-Bill
The military did use them but I have never seen a shiny one in the possession of any soldier on a battlefield other than George Patton. Him only in pictures.
-Bill
richyoung
Member
Patton's side arms were a Colt Single Action Army, and a registered Smith & Wesson .357 both in nickle. No model 10 or predecessor....
Nope: Gen. Patton's S&W .357 Magmum (Registered Model) was blued.
The order was placed by Lt. Col. Patton on September 9. 1935. He specified the following features:
Barrel Length: 3 1/2 inches
Front Sight: McGivern (gold bead)
Rear Sight: Large "U"
Revolver to be sighted in @ 15 yards using S&W 357 Magnum ammunition; Dead center hold.
Include: Wesson Grip Adapter (attached).
Cost: $48.00
Registration No. 506
The famous monogramed ivory stocks were added later. He sometimes referred to it as his "killing gun."
The order was placed by Lt. Col. Patton on September 9. 1935. He specified the following features:
Barrel Length: 3 1/2 inches
Front Sight: McGivern (gold bead)
Rear Sight: Large "U"
Revolver to be sighted in @ 15 yards using S&W 357 Magnum ammunition; Dead center hold.
Include: Wesson Grip Adapter (attached).
Cost: $48.00
Registration No. 506
The famous monogramed ivory stocks were added later. He sometimes referred to it as his "killing gun."
MatthewVanitas
Member
Nope: Gen. Patton's S&W .357 Magmum (Registered Model) was blued.
The order was placed by Lt. Col. Patton on September 9. 1935. He specified the following features:
Barrel Length: 3 1/2 inches
Front Sight: McGivern (gold bead)
Rear Sight: Large "U"
Revolver to be sighted in @ 15 yards using S&W 357 Magnum ammunition; Dead center hold.
Include: Wesson Grip Adapter (attached).
Cost: $48.00
According to the www.westegg.com Inflation Calculator:
"What cost $48 in 1935 would cost $718.20 in 2007. "
Admittedly, a Registered Magnum cost a lot more than $718 these days, but that's because it's the better part of a century old. But $718 will certainly buy you a pretty solid revolver or semi-auto.
For more perspective (from http://www.measuringworth.com/ussave/):
"In 2007, $48 saved in 1935 would be worth:
# $769.38 if saved in a short-term asset.
# $3,426.57 if saved in a long-term asset at a term of 1 years.
# $5,255.49 if saved in a DJA portfolio."
$700 (give or take) will buy you a "pretty solid revolver ... " but not the absolute top-of-the-line.
In another case-in-point, a Colt Single Action Army (which wasn't the top-of-the-line at the time by any means) had a list price of about $36.00. Today a similar Colt has a list price of around $1,300. That same revolver was $13.90 in late 1909.
Now run the math and see what you come up with.
TheVirginian
Member
OK, I was actually just trying to illustrate the "shiny" bit not belonging on the battlefield, not reference the model of gun, but I do see the cause of confusion due my poor sentence structure. I think that it's safe to say that the nickel or chrome versions were intended for civilian use.
-Bill
I have also seen WWII pictures of General Patton carrying a holstered Colt Woodsman. His son George Jr. carried a Ivory handled Colt during the Vietnam era. He also had a drinking cup made from a silver mounted VC skull which caused him grief publicity wise.
TheVirginian:
Your post was clear. My response was to richyoung's post that followed. While Uncle Sam usually didn't issue nickel plated handguns, some officers carried nickeled ones that they had privately purchased. The attraction of nickel plate was corrosion resistance during a time when stainless steel wasn't available.
Your post was clear. My response was to richyoung's post that followed. While Uncle Sam usually didn't issue nickel plated handguns, some officers carried nickeled ones that they had privately purchased. The attraction of nickel plate was corrosion resistance during a time when stainless steel wasn't available.
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