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Old straightstick police baton with no grip or lanyard. How were they used?

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by glistam, Dec 5, 2017.

  1. glistam

    glistam Member

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    Had an interesting find during a Black Friday sale, an older style police baton to add to my collection. It's a very simple design, literally just a cylinder 26" long and 1.25" thick, with no grips, holes or lanyards. It weighs 1.29 lbs, so the density (69.8565 lb/ft3) is roughly that of cocobolo, but my guess is it's synthetic polymer of some kind. The reason I know it's a baton and not a piece of rod stock is the word "Monadnock" written on the side.

    Considering it has no grip area, how was this type of baton used? Also, how were they carried if it has no protrusions to sit in a ring?
    Staightstick.jpg
     
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  2. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    I carried a similar one. Mine had a rubber donut about 6" from one end. It just slid on. I had a ring on my duty belt that the baton slide in. Had one on the other side for a big flashlight. Most of the time the baton just rode between my car seat and the door jamb.
     
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  3. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    Safariland shows what they call an MP riot baton in assorted lengths with and without a "grip". 1 ¼” diameter polycarbonate, 18, 24, 26 and 36 inch lengths. Probably not a 'carry' thing.
     
  4. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    You're supposed to slide a rubber grommet on it
    MON-2700-2.jpg

    So it would look something like the lower baton
    new_batons.jpg

    The classic straight baton is much more versatile then the side handle one or the collapsible one. I used to carry a 29" wooden one on my belt
     
  5. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    I did most of my career with a wooden one until it was mandatory to go go to the tonfa like baton

    Polycarbonate shampoo does not have the same ring as wood shampoo. :)
     
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  6. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    This is very true. :cool:

    The wood baton was also more effective as you could change the angle of attack in mid-strike
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
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  7. sean m

    sean m Member

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    I was watching the linked video below recently on how to use the baton
     
  8. ColtPythonElite

    ColtPythonElite Member

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    Mine had a nice round steel ball in the end of the grip end. It was about the size of a 50 caliber ball. It was said to be intended for breaking car glass and not cracking skulls.
     
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  9. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    Almost all of those techniques were obsolete by the time I started in LE in '79
     
  10. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, I started in 72 and stick technique evolved quickly
     
  11. glistam

    glistam Member

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    By the time I started, collapsible batons were the standard. I was never fond of the side-handle batons as they just seemed to handle awkwardly. For the past few years I've been studying and playing with various stick weapons of 3' or less. This baton definitely is hefty and hits with far more authority than collapsibles, but it does handle oddly. I find I have to choke up about 1/3 of the length to swing one-handed without being afraid of it flying out of my hand. This video I found of the late Bob Koga seems to support that:


    Can you explain that? If two objects have the exact same shape, dimension, weight etc, but different materials, I don't understand how one material is suppose to grant the ability to execute different martial technique.
     
  12. entropy

    entropy Member

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    Not the same weight. Also, many cops drilled them out and put lead in them.
     
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  13. lemaymiami

    lemaymiami Member

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    I was issued and carried the old stick baton, then years later, the collapsible ASP baton. I knew guys who were very skilled with a baton (mostly in tactics that would have horrified any liberal arts major...). Most only consider the baton as an "impact weapon" and train in ways to use it that aren't lethal - but a baton can be used in strangles, come-alongs, and ways intended to disable an opponent.
    Since I wasn't willing to really try to seriously hurt someone with blackjack or baton I never found impact weapons particularly useful and went to other methods when subduing or controlling an individual - but I do remember the days when they were in common use down here in paradise... Most of that ended with the MacDuffie case where a "fleeing motorist" was beaten to death by a wolf pack of officers when he was finally caught (this was long before the Rodney King case out on the west coast). The resulting trials and the first big riot that resulted after acquittals that occurred left a lasting change in both what was issued and the way those "impact weapons" were allowed to be deployed (in the MacDuffie case those weapons included heavy machined aluminum flashlights....).
     
  14. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "...cops drilled them out and..." Cops used to come into the shop looking for repairs to Prolight flashlights with tooth marks on 'em too. snicker.
     
  15. bikerdoc

    bikerdoc Moderator Staff Member

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    I had a lead filled one. Hole was hidden by a plug.

    The baton as an impact weapon was very useful to me. Being small at 5' 7" it was a size, reach, strenth equalizer.

    A snap to the clavicle, elbow, hand, knee solar plexis, or ribs usually was a fight stopper.
    The big mistake was striking the head multiple times. That is what caused all the furor and becauseof a few neanderthals we lost a good compliance weapon.
     
  16. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

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    I'm sorry as my original post wasn't very clear.

    I was directing the post at the much more popular side handle baton. They were just becoming popular when I started in LE..

    My objection to the polymer batons is that the balance/weight is different enough to throw off your technique. The strike response was also subjectively different.

    The advantage of collapsible batons has always been that they are more discreet, this isn't always an advantage (advantage). The grip that the design allows is also somewhat limited
     
  17. FN in MT

    FN in MT Member

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    Still have my baton that my Dad turned for me on his lathe, out of some South American hard wood. Possibly cocobolo as it's brown with nice grain.

    Have to disagree with those who don't like the pr-24/side handle baton. I found those very useful, especially when I fended off a 2x4 onetime with a overhead block. Would not have done as well with a baton I think.

    Agency I initially worked for in Central NJ had a dozen or so old batons in the arms room. Those were commercially made and could fire a 12 ga shell. They were sleeved with a steel barrel about 14" long. NO idea if it was a GAS type shell or shot. They weighed maybe 2 pounds. Couldn't imagine a load of 00 buck out of that. They were from the 20's .
     
  18. cadet3

    cadet3 Member

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    How were they used?

    They're still being used to this day in LE. I have one sitting on my duty bag as I type this. You use it as an impact weapon just like you would an ASP baton, except you don't have to worry about it breaking or bending.
     

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  19. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

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    I actually trained with one of the fellows who developed Monadnock's first manual for the PR-24 (the 'Protect and Restrain Side-Handle Baton') and was surprised to find out the side handle was intended to make it awkward, in a sense; because your ability to grip through impact was limited by your hand strength (you were gripping the handle at right angles to the impact, thus had to control the impact by limiting the spin of the handle) it limited how hard you could strike.

    In other words, the side handle, while good for some restraints (I've used it for some, and it does work) was intended to LIMIT striking force; hence all the complaints from coppers when we were forced to switch to them.

    Larry
     
  20. rodinal220

    rodinal220 Member

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    The wood shampoo was very effective back when cops could be cops. Extruded aircraft aluminum in caliber D was equally effective.
     
  21. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    I was trained with, and issued the side-handle baton, the one in aircraft-aluminum, not the PR-24. I really liked it, but it was all I knew, as "straight-sticks" were already headed by the wayside. The metal SHB had a swivel on part of its handle's grip, positioned for the little finger to provide the spin point.

    Later, the PR-24X, the collapsible one, came out, I still have mine (some 26+years later), but never really warmed up to it.

    DT Guy writes:

    I hope that's not what "PR" really meant. I was taught it simply stood for "polycarbonate resin" or something like that. I've never heard of anything else for it.
     
  22. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

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    We were taught that it was the 'Protect and Restrain 24" Baton'=PR-24. No idea if that changed, or there were various names, but the person who told me was an 'International Instructor' (one of the original 14 instructors) at Monadnock.


    Larry
     
  23. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    ^^ It wouldn't surprise me, given the changing political waves at the time. This was around the same era in which police combat-target silhouettes went from black to blue.
     
  24. DT Guy

    DT Guy Member

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    Ah, the old 'We're practicing to shoot other cops' target! :)


    Larry
     
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  25. rondog

    rondog Member

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    Ah, from the good old days when you could club a maggot like a baby seal......
     

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