Oldest Ammo You'd Carry?

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Naturally if ammo is visibly breaking down then it has been compromised either by environmental conditions, excessive use (repeated reloading beyond recommended) or stresses from improper reloading of brand new brass. It goes without saying that visible signs are a red flag.

A normal indoor living environment in reference to ammo storage does not mean the most uncomfortable conditions you can stand or a musty basement. It means climate controlled.

older ammo can outlast newer ammo depending on components and loading methods. The year of manufacture shouldn't be the sole determining factor.

For example many premium handgun rounds are loaded into nickle plated cases. Military spec rounds with sealant around the case neck and primer are intended for long-term stockpiling and storage by design.
 
The confirmation bias on those who think ammunition lasts forever, and of course they will be there with their ammunition till infinity and beyond, is amazing. Deniers have an amazingly flexible yet tenacious ability to deny the obvious.

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They also lack the ability to study the issue themselves, the first place I would start is Googling "Insensitive Munitions" and see all the documents that fall under that category. Not that a denier would see patterns, but they might.

Gunpowder is a high energy compound that is breaking down to a low energy compound from the day it leaves the factory. It's breakdown rate follows the Arrhenius equation, but even so, the lifetime of any particular gunpowder (propellent) cannot be known with any exactness. Heat accelerates the deterioration of gunpowder exponentially:

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A 20 year shelf life is generally what the military specifies, but, plenty of lots have failed before 20 years is up. Sometimes eight years. Those who are shooting century old gunpowder, well lucky you that you still have a wrist on the end of your arm, or a head between your shoulders. Old gunpowder will blow up guns. It is from burn rate instability. In bulk, the stuff auto combusts. The Army believes in the "five inch rule", they believe the ability of a case to conduct heat will prevent autocombustion in the case for rounds smaller than five inches in diameter. A Naval Insensitive Expert I met, considered that nonsense, based on the investigations of actual blowups he had conducted. None of which are in the public domain!. The Government has well hidden autocombustion and detonation events from the public. Anyway, you can read in this paper about how ammunition is safe until it is demilled, but the bulk gunpowder from that same ammunition, is likely to auto combust.

Field-Portable Propellant Stability Test Equipment


http://www.almc.army.mil/alog/issues/JulAug08/propellant_stab_eq.html

The U.S. military has stockpiles of ammunition, new and old, that can present safety hazards. The primary ingredient of the propellant used in these rounds, nitrocellulose, can deteriorate with age and become prone to autoignition. To avoid the destruction that could occur from the self-ignition of this propellant, the Department of Defense (DOD) has established a program for testing ammunition stocks to determine the thermal stability of the nitrocellulose propellants they contain.

History of Nitrocellulose

Shortly after French chemist Theophile Jule Pelouze nitrated cotton in 1838 and created the world’s first batch of nitrocellulose, potential users recognized that it could be a dangerously unreliable explosive. Practical use of nitrocellulose began in the mid-1840s with the advent of Christian Shönbein’s improved manufacturing process. However, its use was short-lived because of frequent explosions of the impurely processed batches. It was another 20 years before Frederick Abel of Britain produced a good quality, commercially viable nitrocellulose known as guncotton.

Unlike black and brown powders, the new nitrocellulose powders had the desirable characteristics of being relatively smokeless, powerful, and nonhygroscopic. [Hygroscopic items readily absorb moisture from the air.] However, they still decomposed at an unreliably fast rate, causing so many accidental explosions in storage and among gun crews that black and brown powders remained the favored gun propellants on land and sea through the end of the 19th century.

Nitrocellulose-based powders finally replaced black and brown powders in the early 1900s, first at sea in the world’s navies and then on land. Since reliable means of stabilizing the nitrocellulose propellants had not yet been developed, these powders were still in danger of decomposition and, thus, instability. Devastating accidents, like those aboard the French battleships Liberté and Iena and the Russian Imperatritsa Mariya, lent urgency to the search for an effective stabilizer.

Propellant Stabilizers

As nitrocellulose-based propellants decompose, they release nitrogen oxides. If the nitrogen oxides are left free to react in the propellant, they can react with the nitrate ester, causing further decomposition and additional release of nitrogen oxides. The reaction between the nitrate ester and the nitrogen oxides is exothermic. (It produces heat.) Heat increases the rate of propellant decomposition, and the exothermic nature of the reaction may generate sufficient heat to initiate combustion.

Stabilizers are chemical ingredients added to propellants at the time of manufacture to decrease the rate of propellant degradation and reduce the probability of autoignition during its expected useful life. Stabilizers that are added to propellant formulations react with free nitrogen oxides to prevent their ability to react with the nitrate ester. The stabilizers are scavengers that act like sponges, but once they become “saturated,” they are no longer able to remove nitrogen oxides from the propellant. At this point, self-heating of the propellant can occur unabated and may reach the point of spontaneous combustion.

Propellant Stability Testing

Propellant autoignition accidents continued to occur after the introduction of modern stabilizers during and after World War I, but at a vastly reduced frequency. Most early propellant powders were stabilized with diphenylamine or ethyl centralite. Later 2-nitrodiphenylamine and Akardite II also became common stabilizers in the United States. The type of stabilizer used depended on propellant formulation.

Shortly after the end of World War I, the Navy and the Army each established permanent propellant surveillance laboratories to monitor the safe status of their propellants throughout their entire life cycles. Both services adopted the 65.5 degrees Celsius surveillance test as their primary tool. This test is a type of accelerated aging test and is known as the fume test. It is designed to preempt the autoignition of propellant in storage by forcing it to happen much earlier in the laboratory. When a tested propellant lot’s “days to fume” reach a defined minimum level, all quantities of that lot, wherever stored, are ordered destroyed. Until 1963, Navy ships had propellant labs on board to conduct this test. Although techniques have improved over the years, the accelerated aging test is still conducted by the Navy service lab at Indian Head, Maryland, and the Army lab at Picatinny Arsenal

For those that think old ammo is still ok....

https://www.gunandgame.com/threads/for-those-that-think-old-ammo-is-still-ok.38539/

A buddy of mine took his Sig p220 .45 down the range with us the other weekend. He had some old winchester hollowpoints that looked like they had been buried for 30 years. With myself still being new to guns and shooting, i didnt think anything about it.

Well he took one shot and it blow up in his hand. Now he has shot numerous rounds through this gun without a problem, of course they were new. Anyway, noone was hurt but the sig. This is hte way the gun is stuck in. It will not budge. Id say its a nice new paperwieght



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Has anyone else had Vihtavuori N140 corrode in loaded ammo?

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3745264

I pulled two boxes (100 rounds total) of .308 ammo out of the safe I loaded about ten years ago and found some of them had blue powdery stuff coming out of the necks. I pulled a few rounds down and the inside case walls were powdery blue. The base of the bullets were corroded and blue. None of the other .308 ammo in the safe loaded with Varget has this problem. None of my pistol ammo looks to have anything wrong, but I haven't unloaded any of them. None of my blued guns have any rust. It's not a moist environment issue.

I've never had this happen before. Spent a lot of money loading this ammo for my AR-10 and used new brass, CCI BR2 primers, and N140 powder. It's all junk now.
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What made me check it was I shot my AR-10 that's been sitting idle for about 8 years. Same ammo as what's in the boxes I checked. Out of the first ten rounds from the mag that was in the gun three blew primer pockets. I unloaded the rest of the cartridges and they were corroded.

I googled it and found one instance where someone else had the same thing happen



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HXP at Perry . . .



http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=115939



HXP 77 was the culprit. I won't shoot that stuff. A whole bunch of heavy bolt handle lifts in the 03 matches when it was issued at Perry. I have fired a lot of HXP 70, 72 & 73 with no issues at all, 03's and M1's.



Tombguard, What Ceresco is implying is that while HXP 77 ammo exhibited frequent and sometimes severe issues (excessive bolt lift force, dismounted op rods, duds, hangfires, etc.) there is the concern that other lots will have the same issues but with perhaps lesser frequency. If a manufacturing process doesn't have robust QC practices, more issues are lurking out there like snakes in the grass. I am not saying that you should avoid HXP ammo - I'm just saying that one should be aware that systemically the issues might extend beyond HXP 77 ammo

Ammunition manufacturer's warrant their ammunition for ten years. I would say for personnel defense ammunition that is a good rule to follow. Take those ten year old rounds and bust some rocks. Then buy new ammunition.
 
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Depends. I would visually inspect it and make a decision based on any signs of degradation I could find. If all signs are good I would test a few and then make final decision based upon performance. Rimfire-5 years max. Centerfire-as long as it passes inspection.
 
I don't fret about shooting old ammo, but I wouldn't "carry" it because that would be kind of silly unless I had no other options.
 
Depends. I would visually inspect it and make a decision based on any signs of degradation I could find. If all signs are good I would test a few and then make final decision based upon performance. Rimfire-5 years max. Centerfire-as long as it passes inspection.

That seems pretty extreme, why the short shelf life on rimfire?
 
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