one-handed shooting: why tilt?

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wow all this stuff about cross dominance and ppl that shot w/ one hand and converted to the other.... makes me want to ask... why not dual wield since you're good with both hands now? :D
 
Not that simple--now you're talking about trying to "cross-coordinate", which is exceedingly difficult if not impossible. When I shoot duals, they're either both straight ahead and at close range, or off to each side: fire a couple at Target 1, switch focus and launch a couple at Target 2, then back to Target 1. The only way it could ever be useful is if you need to present "credible risk" to two assailants coming from different directions, assuming they oblige you by choosing suitable angles of approach.
 
Excuse me Sam, but it seems to me I have been told numerous times by various advisers to avoid canting the sights, which in case you are unaware, means tilting the gun to the side as this is improper sighting. I quote the late Col. Cooper because I felt he summed up the situation best. I have never before this thread known of any SERIOUS students of marksmanship deliberately holding the pistol improperly and I maintain that they did in fact learn this from the ghetto gangsters who seem quite fond of this improper technique.
 
SaxonPig, McMillan took Olympic GOLD with that technique. Are you going to tell us his medal was made of unicorn farts and pixie dust? In fact, if you look at the photo on Military Marksmanship Association's page about him, you can actually see a combination of tilted iron and tilted head achieving that cross-dominant correction.
http://www.militarymarksmanship.org/tapsmcmillan.htm

But nevermind, I won't confuse you with facts 'cuz your mind is already made up--while I admire Cooper too, the man had his biases and could occasionally forget about the impossibility of a "one-size-fits-all" technique.

Everyone else, all I can say is "Try it, you might like it. Or not."
 
Diamondback6, thanks for posting that link.

Preface:
Folks, I am as dumb as brick. I have never attended a known gun facility, all my lessons were private.

I was born in '55 and shot my revolver first at age 3.
I get a bit bigger and the lessons are shared, a person facing another with a gun, will often focus on the gun and therefore shoot at the gun.
Law abiding, or criminal, does not matter. Human beings just do this.

So, I am right handed, and right eye dominant. Mentors took my right hand and stuck a sock on it and :

You have been shot in the right hand, transition to your left hand. Now to keep from shooting your right hand, snug it to your chest. Now focus on front sight, and target and cant the gun a little bit...

This was just before my maternal grandma died in March 1961 so I was five years old as I would not turn six until April.


Like I said, I am as dumb as a brick so I bow to those with more training than I or any instructors we have around here, including Mas Ayoob.



* i'm just a dumb southern boy*
 
I learned to do the slight inward tilt shooting weak hand from Jim Cirillo about 20 years ago. He explained it as:

It has to do with lining up the arms muscles, bones, and tendons. Some find it helps; others do not.

Cirillo's explanation was more detailed than that but that's the way I explain it also. As Steve said about 30-45 degrees works well.

Shooting strong hand only my handgun is straight up.
 
Excuse me Sam, but it seems to me I have been told numerous times by various advisers to avoid canting the sights, which in case you are unaware, means tilting the gun to the side as this is improper sighting. I quote the late Col. Cooper because I felt he summed up the situation best. I have never before this thread known of any SERIOUS students of marksmanship deliberately holding the pistol improperly and I maintain that they did in fact learn this from the ghetto gangsters who seem quite fond of this improper technique.
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No worries, SP! I understand where you're coming from! Before I started various kinds of competition shooting, I'd never heard of it either. But, really, the more I think about it, it isn't just sound technique for action pistol (and bulls-eye, apparantly!).

A couple decades ago when I started shooting 3-position small-bore, I was taught to cant the 'ol Anschutz slightly to maintain the correct body posture. I was reminded of that when I saw a high-power rifle techniques video put out by one of the AMU guys a couple of weeks ago. In off-hand, he got his stance perfect, brought his M-16/AR-15 up into position, and then rolled (canted) it hard over against his cheek. (Bring the sights to your eyes, not the other way 'round.) And that was a STRONG 15-20 deg. cant, too, not just slightly out of plumb.

The idea of using it for one-hand pistol techniques is slightly different, though the same principles apply. (And SM, Grizz, Diamondback, and others have presented all of that pretty clearly.) How it is applied in IDPA/USPSA might be a little bit different than in bulls-eye -- I thought it WASN'T used in bullseye for the same reasons you've stated! Whoops! -- but the principles appear to be the same.

Remember how pistol marksmen used to stand perfectly erect, strong hand at max extension, weak hand behind their backs or on their hip, etc? Same kind of thing. That used to be the "right" way to do it, and finding a natural point of aim (or adjusting your stance for better balance, canting the gun, etc.) would have been denounced as improper. It took men like Col. Cooper, Askins, Fairbairn, Applegate, and their pals to break a lot of those molds. And the principle of breaking down the hang-ups of the old ways and distilling out only that which works is alive and well, thanks to them!

You really learn something new here just about every day, don't you?

-Sam
 
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I have found that a slight inward cant helps me control the pistol in recoil. It seems to recoil straight back if I tilt it slightly, and it wants to kick up/out if I hold it up-n-down normally.
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exactly. it helps me get on target quicker, follow through, and get follow up shots quicker.

btw that pic is of me, i do it, and it works.
it dosen't matter how the gun is canted, as long as you can line up the sights, and press the trigger you can get the hits you need.
 
There is a time and place for everything, but canting a gun messes up sight alignment. The barrel of you gun is slightly inclined so the bullet intersects the sight line at some point (zero). If you have zeroed very near or very far the plane of the sights and the plane of the barrel are less parallel, and gravity only works to move the bullet back to zero in the vertical plane. The longer your shot the further off target it will be if the gun is canted. Not a problem for 10 yard defensive shooting but a big problem for targets at 500 yards.
 
I was taught to tilt slightly for the reasons already mentioned and also because the sights line up easier
 
the olympic pistols now have the cant built into the grip.

Many of the top end guns go as far as putting the grip on a ball joint.
 
I tilt about 20deg shooting one handed (right). I am not cross dominant. I notice it's a more natural position for everything from my shoulder to my wrist and can achieve longer and much steadier holds on the gun.

Oddly, I tend to only tilt autos and not revolvers.
 
I'll let you know how that goes the next time I try some 500 yard shots with my handguns.
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting long pistol shots although some people do hunt with them.

Quote:
There is a time and place for everything, but canting a gun messes up sight alignment

no it dosen't, btw we are talking about handguns here.
Click to expand...

It most certainly does affect sight alignment. If you don't belive it next time you take your rifle to the range lay it on its side and take shot at 100 yards. My guess is you won't even hit the paper.
 
It seems to me we are talking several different issues here.

First, the media driven, gangsta, bullsh*t, 90 degree tilt, gun over the head, style of "busting a cap".

Second, tilting the sights say, 5 degrees or so.

Last, straight up vertical sight alignment.

The first is a no-brainer, all show and no go.

The second will work as long as the front and rear sights align and are on target, and the gun has POA and POI adjusted for the task at hand.

Lastly, I find good old fashioned Cooper-esque sight aquisition the most reliable, either hand.
 
Guys, note that this forum is called, "Handguns: General Discussion."

If you want to make a point about rifle shooting that will provide an interesting contrast, then that's great...but let's skip the hostility about it, please.
 
Too bad that photo can't talk. On first glance it looks to me like someone shooting weak handed from left to right. The tilt would be to bring the gun to the dominant eye and to get the gun to recoil to about the two o'clock position in order to ride the recoil in the direction of the transition while bringing the gun into the body. Of course, that's just a guess.
 
Re: Why Tilt?

Folks, this is another tool in the toolbox, not the toolbox.

A couple of realities if I may-
In the real world nothing is blue printed to be level, face on, flat or stationary or...

-Targets move, and are 3D.
-If you ain't moving, you need be shooting, reloading, something!
-Some presentations from concealment, or cover, are not going to allow one a perfect "stance" or "grip".
i.e having to shoot under a vehicle, or back up and over your head as you are on your back.
-Hence the reason one checks semi autos, with mags, to see if the gun runs not only "normal" also canted/tilted, port side up, port side down and even upside down as it will be if shooting back and over your head.


Note: Mags do not fall "up", and it does not matter how hard you hit the mag release...trust me.
*duh*
 
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